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Thread: Grindal worm cultures

  1. #1
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    Grindal worm cultures

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    Hi all,

    As some of you may already know, I'm a live-food advocate and prefer to feed worms and bugs to my fishes. Most of the time, culturing 'em creepy crawlies are fun and educational (for my kids).

    I love tubifex too but many will not agree to it, owing to tendencies of causing disease outbreaks. FWIW, almost all my killies are spoilt brats and refuses flakes or pellets... so for them, tubifex is a staple diet.

    Microworm and vinegar eel cultures (VEC) are fine for very young frys.

    Tubifex is great for mature fishes... but what about older 1cm frys? Sheessh... I dislike chopping up tubifex or Red Wigglers, so grindal worms is an appropriate size in-between!

    As with most cultures, except VEC, it takes time to maintain and re-sub multiple cultures, and it's precisely this extra time that I don't have. Caring for frys, admiring the vibrant colors of my fishes or listening to music from my LPs (yes... records, those big black plastics), is what I'd prefer to do.

    That said, it was fortunate that the grindal cultures were resilient enough to be revived, even against total neglect, but I really need a safety net.

    Right now, I've about 12 small cultures that has sufficient worms to restart another culture and a small amount of fresh cocopeat will be provided to those who are game to try. I think the best part of my 'offer' is that it is free!

    Ok ok... I hear skeptics whispering that there's no free lunch. There's a 'catch', if you can call it that, and it's a open invitation to be part of a 'live-food culture network'. In time, I hope this network is what we killie-keepers can turn to in times of need (unexpected boom of frys, etc).

    What I do request, is to be updated; should cultures crash, when members no longer wish to maintain it, or has re-subbed and distributed more cultures (don't be shy, just tell me).

    This invitation is also extended to our overseas friends, as mentioned in some earlier threads and I'll do what I can to ensure safe receipt of the cultures.

    If there're no other takers, besides Storm and Zul, I'll be throwing this offer out to AQ to clear my small cultures and if there're reasons why fellow forumers feel that this initiative isn't feasible, please advise.

    Perhaps I should also mention that those with squirmish spouses should get the "A-OK" from them before hopping onboard (seriously tho, these grindals aren't that disgusting or foul smelling).

    Apologies for the long post but I look forward to your participation.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  2. #2
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    Ron,
    I would like to be counted in. I do have VEC and microworms that I would be happy to share with someone, too.
    I" think" my partner won't mind, he never goes to the pantry,so what is hiding in there is my secert. the children are used to Mom's strange things on the shelf...but I must remember to tell them what it is, so that they don't holler, Mom," what's this new stuff?"
    Deb Bear

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    Hiya Deb,

    There's a local source amongst forumers with VEC & MW, so I needn't trouble you for that.

    What would be great is White Worms (WW) but I know they won't survive the journey here (been there, done that). Besides, our climate is simply too warm for these WWs to be productive and the fridge isn't quite my domain

    I'll need to know what weather you're in, so I can pack/insulate accordingly. Email me your mailing address and I'll zap a culture over.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Ron, count me in too.

    Eric Yeo

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    What would be great is White Worms (WW) but I know they won't survive the journey here (been there, done that). Besides, our climate is simply too warm for these WWs to be productive and the fridge isn't quite my domain

    Ron, would you consider putting the WW in a small cooler with an ice block?We can get a gel type of ice pack that doesn't make a mess, when thawed out just put back in the freezer.You could also use two soda bottles ,fill half full then freeze and then alternate between the two bottles to keep the cooler COOL. Just a thought.....
    The weather around here is in the upper 60'sF,nightime is 40F
    Address: Debra Bear 9241 Green Branch Rd Willards Md 21874 USA
    Thanks, Ron
    Deb Bear
    Ps:I have a small foam cooler that ,if i would put a gel pack in with a small starter.Perhaps it would make it :wink:

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    Ron, possible to count me in?
    Jennifer Ooi
    Living in Pearl of Orient

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkillis
    Ron, possible to count me in?
    Jennifer,
    Of course it's possible. Just email me with mailing details and I'll pack it up for you.

    To make life just a little easier, I'll include some fresh media and oat meal.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by Debbbear
    You could also use two soda bottles ,fill half full then freeze and then alternate between the two bottles to keep the cooler COOL. Just a thought.....
    Debra, here's a penny for that thought :wink:. I suppose one could swap 'bottled ice',but it's gonna be more work than it is feasible.

    There was a nice wine chiller I saw over the weekend but it's almost a full-sized fridge, which I think is more appropriate for restaurant use. I might consider a used bar-counter-sized chiller, if the price is right.

    Ps:I have a small foam cooler that ,if i would put a gel pack in with a small starter.Perhaps it would make it :wink:
    It sounds like you've got WW culture going, so what are you feeding them? Would love to hear some 1st hand experience on maintaining these wormies.

    The foam cooler might work, but from what articles I've read so far, the culture's productivity starts dropping when temp hits 26ºC (approx 79ºF) while the average temp on our little island home hovers between 27~31ºC. Thanks for the offer tho.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Ron,
    Your right on the fact that WW like the cold! I keep them in the garage in the winter it can get very cold out there but as long as I keep them from freezing hard they survive.In the summer I have to bring them in to the refrigerator.
    I feed them baby mixed ceral with a little milk to make the cereal wet,but not soupy wet or sometimes I blend up veggies that are going bad in the frig.Do not over feed where it gets moldy they don't like mold. I take a walk to our woods for the dirt to raise them in,If you get the dirt in the winter ,there are no problems with mites.They really are easy to grow.
    Deb Bear

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    Deb, I'm consolidating these little grindals together so that you get more worms in the packet and should be going out beginning of next week.

    As for the WWs, I'll take up your offer when I can find a cheap compact cooler or bar-counter mini fridge.

    There're also some mites (harmless to humans) I'm ridding of, by flooding the media and letting the mites overflow out of the container, or I just torch them while they're jumping around.

    Jennifer, have you sent me your address? By 'Pearl of the Orient', I take it that you're from Hong Kong?

    To the rest who've expressed interest, I'll try and arrange for collection next Saturday afternoon about 4pm (I get off work around 3)... and oh... partaking in microworm fondue is not compulsory!

    My home is at Choa Chu Kang and for those who find it inconvenient, I can bring the cultures down to my work place along Balestier Road.

    I'm also reverting the status of this thread from 'Announcement' to 'Normal', and will be posting to AQ soon. Those who caught this thread late can still contact me via email.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  11. #11
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    Thanks, Ron
    I will let you know when they arrive.
    If you find a cooler,I'm only an e-mail away.You really need to have whiteworm wantons added to your menu.
    Deb Bear

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    hello Ron, seems u stay pretty near to me. i live in bukit batok and going to CCK isn't a problem for me. it would be good if u could pass me your contact number. mine is [x] . just gimme a ring or sms when u can and tell me when i should go collect the worms. i'd appreciate it alot

    oh yes, by the way, during weekdays i'm not free cos i've got OT till 8+ at night. my unit is undergoing a major repair exercise so i can't collect the cultures until the weekend arrives. :wink:
    Last edited by stormhawk; 17th Jan 2013 at 22:03.

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    Sure thing Storm, it's nice to have more killie friends putting up in the west and I'm trying to arrange for grindal collection on Saturday late afternoon since Sunday is family day, and I usually work past 10pm on weekdays.

    Those who're getting their grindal sandwiches...
    Debra
    Jennifer - I've not received your mailing address
    Sia Meng
    Zulkifli
    Fazdli
    Rashid
    Eric Yeo
    Stormhawk (think it's time I have a name to that moniker :wink: )
    ... (did I miss out anyone? Gan, is that culture thriving or do you need another one?)
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    A quick one...

    Debra, I consolidated 4 cultures into a worm-tight box with damp media on Sunday but I suspect that damp cocopeat don't hold oxygen well... and by Monday, the grindals turned to mush.

    I repacked the worms sparsely now with just a little bit of the old media and more air space. A small packet of fresh cocopeat is enclosed, so you can use it as samples when looking for it at nurseries. Parcel went Tuesday, Oct 14th.

    I'm scheduling collection date on Oct 18th between 4-6pm. Address details will be delivered soon. Check your message box.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Sorry Ron. I had already replied your PM.
    Jennifer Ooi
    Living in Pearl of Orient

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    Ron,
    I recieved the grindal culture the 21st. Oooooh, it stank the poor worms were mush.
    I wonder what would happen if one used the breathable bags?
    I will buy the culture here in the US, so that if someone else on this side of the world needed a start quick, I'm here ready to share.
    I have breathble bags, when I get a start going I could ship to you to see what happens.
    Thanks,Ron
    Deb Bear
    AKA#08746
    SAA#175

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    Quote Originally Posted by Debbbear
    I recieved the grindal culture the 21st. Oooooh, it stank the poor worms were mush.
    wow! and to think that having more air-space might increase the chances of survival for the wormies. Oh well... back to the drawing board... I suppose I could modify a larger container by adding some breathing 'windows' and see if that works any better (just don't smell what your eyes can't see :wink: ).

    I could also send a pretty dried out culture that may contain grindal egg capsules. I know that vermiculture/composting worms lay egg capsules and suspect that these are pretty much like killie eggs, going dormant through a dry period, and 'hatching' when conditions improves (that's the 'theory' bit, I could also be wrong!).

    Ok... smell aside, could you detect anything moving?? (sorry Deb, if you felt faint after taking a wiff of that! ) and honestly, I wouldn't mind sending the grindals on another trip.

    I wonder what would happen if one used the breathable bags?
    I will buy the culture here in the US, so that if someone else on this side of the world needed a start quick, I'm here ready to share.
    I have breathble bags, when I get a start going I could ship to you to see what happens.
    Are you referring to those from Kordon (or something like that)? Breathing bags is not a common sight here since travel time within our little island is relatively short, but if you managed to get hold of a thriving grindal culture, I'd be interested to see if anything still twitches after the trip (surprisingly, I KNOW microworms did survive shipping from the USA, in a ziploc bag and padded envelope). If your grindals do become prolific, let's exchange notes!

    BTW, I'm curious... are you maintaining any of the Chromaphyosemion/Aphyosemion species?
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Hi Ron,
    Several of the children were standing around me when I recieved your package,excited to see what mom had coming this time.When I opened the lid, there was one big peeU!Then I was silently left alone. There was nothing moving but I did take some of the culture soil and put in on some new compost soil,just to see what happens. Do you always use coco fiber for grindal?
    I think it would be fun to learn, to know how to send grindal worms internationally. If you want to send some drier culture to see what happens that is fine.I will put all containers on the top shelf in pantry,only the mice and I will know what's up there The bags are the Kordon kind,I like them for shipping killies.If you would like to try them some time let me know.
    I have the Aphy. striatums 93/29 and the Scriptaphyosemion cauveti/Kinda.
    Take care,
    Deb Bear
    AKA#08746
    SAA#175

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debbbear
    Several of the children were standing around me when I recieved your package,excited to see what mom had coming this time.When I opened the lid, there was one big peeU!Then I was silently left alone.
    Ha ha... talk about quick exits! Sorry to have disappointed the little ones... perhaps I should have enclosed a few jerkies!

    There was nothing moving but I did take some of the culture soil and put in on some new compost soil,just to see what happens. Do you always use coco fiber for grindal?
    Yeah Deb, that's a smart move instead of thrashing it. There might be egg capsules that survived the lack of O2. I'd probably add just one oat flake to the mix, in case some wormlets (baby worms?? :wink: ) do hatch.

    I prefer cocopeat for a couple of reasons;
    Firstly, my vermiculture uses the bulk of it and it's cheap. Old coco, vermicast (worm sh*t) and 'worm tea' (worm pee) goes a long way to fertilize my plants.

    Coco has good drainage and occasionally, I stir up the whole culture to minimize anaerobic nasties from booming at the media's lower layers.

    When a culture goes south, I recycle the 'spoilt coco' into my herb planter boxes (peppermint, basil and mini roses love it! Rosemary isn't too crazy about it tho and a good bushy rosemary is helluva difficult to find here!).

    I used peat before my vermiculture got going and when I maintained more nothos, but it gets acidic real quick and worm activity is drastically reduced.

    Coco is pretty neutral and a monthly pinch of lime avoids a pH crash.

    Jianyang/Rashid (aka Stormhawk) might attempt the soil-less or sponge method and since I've not tried that, we'll have to wait for his good news. What I understand is that the size of the sponge pores makes a big difference.

    I did try fresh compost once but production was kinda slow. Most of my cultures tend to be on the very-damp side, where you can almost see the coco glittering, and compost fouls up pretty fast when soggy.

    Do update me when you manage to get grindals booming on compost. (I'm experimenting now with a bone-dry culture to see if my 'theory' of dormant egg capsules is correct)

    I think it would be fun to learn, to know how to send grindal worms internationally. If you want to send some drier culture to see what happens that is fine.
    Yup, and I wanna know too. Let me work on 'reviving' the dry one and see how that goes. Meanwhile, I'm giving more thought about 'breathing windows'... and how to keep the worms IN.

    The bags are the Kordon kind,I like them for shipping killies.If you would like to try them some time let me know. I have the Aphy. striatums 93/29 and the Scriptaphyosemion cauveti/Kinda.
    Cool... yeah, I'm game with Kordon (and I've not seen one before).

    But my ears are perked up!... you ship killies? How's the survival rate of livestock with these bags? Too bad, I'm not gutsy to attempt buying live fishes since our weather gets pretty hot, and the snail-mailman often leave their mail under the sun.

    There's this chap who operates from Nigeria and exports wild-caught killies... but these ain't cheap and I'm not confident enough with our postal system. I should be very contented with just viable eggs and not half-baked ones .

    Deb, I don't think we have striatums amongst the local keepers here and would be absolutely delighted if I can buy any excess eggs from you. I'm liken to compare the striatum with zebra danios, with their dashing lines of red dots.

    I also did a 'google search' for Scriptaphyosemion cauveti Kinda, and WOW! it's beautiful!... (drool). How does the Scriptaphyosemion differ from the 'regular' Aphyosemion and do they require cool waters? If you have pics of those jewels you're maintaining, I'd love to take a peek at 'em.

    I'll get off the soapbox and update you when I see the dry cultures breathing new life.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  20. #20
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    microworm

    Hi Ronnie,

    so have your microworm culture flourish? if not I can still give you summore. gimme more gimme more give me summore...
    If I have a dollar & you have a dollar & we swap, neither is better off. BUT if I have an idea & you have an idea & we swap we are both richer

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