Breeding the Scarlet Badis (Badis bengalensis, Dario dario?)

[RonWill]

hi bro... recently i gotten some scarlet badis from plantas at hornie rd.

i'm intending to breed them but there seems not to have lots of info on them.. as i see that u have experience in breeding them.. can share some tips with me? any advice is greatly appreciated...

Hello all,

I'm usually quite reluctant in replying to anonymous private emails/msgs and would generally be much happier acknowledging to a person instead of a nick... (so make my day by leaving a name, please).

The idea of sharing information appeals to me but instead of responding to "fastlee84" privately, I'll follow-up on the Scarlet Badis from a previous thread. In my online research, I must admit there isn't much details pertaining to the breeding of these pretty dwarfs.

In truth however, the 'Fish Gods' have been kind and generous to me. This episode was purely accidental and there's no 'special technique' or secrets to speak of .

I just added 2 pairs of Badis in a small plastic tank that's stuffed with java moss, mildly aerated, feed them well with tubifex and I was rewarded with eggs (which I almost threw away because I could hardly see them). Incubation period was a pleasantly short 3 days and the frys are 'grounded' with their egg-sacs.

I couldn't see these frys well, let alone count them... so I cheated and used the PC to 'group' and did a head count.

The clickable image will show 4-day old fry with absorbed egg-sacs.

Getting frys is not an accomplishment, it's raising them! and this is where an infusoria culture comes in handy. Please remember that these buggers are really really tiny!.

At 9 days after hatching, not all are free-swimming as 'grounded' frys can still be seen on the tank's bottom. From the few visible frys, I would guess that most are hiding/resting in the java moss.

BTW, I wouldn't consider this spawn successful until I get a nice handful of Badis to go with my docile Lagos*.

* Tom, I'm still checking up on the BIV/BIT specie issue.

[Image links edited 041213]

[fastlee84]

hi ron... i'm really newto this forum. and was introduced to this wonderful forum by a.rashid.btw i'm fazdli.pronounced as fastlee.

thank u for the the valuable insight in breeding badis.. hope to know more abt it in future.
as i think tat ur tank doesn't hv filter? how many times do u do water change and whats the amount....

[timebomb]

hi ron... i'm really newto this forum. and was introduced to this wonderful forum by a.rashid.btw i'm fazdli.pronounced as fastlee.

Welcome to the forum, Fazdli.

Over here, the culture is different from other fish forums. The members here believe in the spirit of sharing. It's hard to share with people who don't reveal their real names so anonymous posts, pms or emails are usually ignored.

I would suggest you read up on the forum rules and forum netiquette. They are posted as 2 stickies near the top when you click on "Killies Arena".

Loh K L

[stormhawk]

Ron, the Scarlet Badis isn't B. b. burmanicus. the burmanicus is known as the Blue Badis, and its fellow subspecies, B. b. badis is known as the Red Badis. the Scarlet Badis is known in some circles as Badis bengalensis. others just call it Badis sp. "Scarlet".

anyway, breeding the members of the Badis group is a fairly straightforward issue. i've read an article on breeding B. b. burmanicus and i suppose it can be applied to breeding the Scarlet Badis as well. the badis love hiding places and giving them caves like a terracotta pot or a clay flowerpot will do. they prefer tanks with alot of plant cover and shy away from view when they can. they should be fed only with live food as they are very prone to wasting away when not fed with live foods.

good food and patience plays a part in making them breed. with minimal disturbance and frequent feeding with lots of minimal water changes, the fish will come into breeding condition very quickly. they breed in the caves and will lay eggs in the plant cover as well. the young are small and need tiny foods for the first day, in this case, provide either infusoria or some other source of microscopic food, say java moss from an established tank. regarding on the part as to whether to seperate the parents from the young, i am not very sure cos the article didn't say anything. but just to be on the safe side, remove the parents once u see fry scooting about. another thing, the majority of scarlets being offered for sale are male. :wink:

[RonWill]

Ron, the Scarlet Badis isn't B. b. burmanicus. the burmanicus is known as the Blue Badis, and its fellow subspecies, B. b. badis is known as the Red Badis. the Scarlet Badis is known in some circles as Badis bengalensis. others just call it Badis sp. "Scarlet".

Aha! I like it when somebody else have been doing their 'homework' too! :wink:

I'm new to this species, so I may have erred in calling them "badis burmanicus" and it sure doesn't looking like either badis found at Aquazoo, which had only one pic each of the Badis badis (Dwarf Chameleon Fish) and the Burmese Badis.

The first time I came across a site that called them Badis bengalensis was this writeup, "Article on the Scarlet Badis".

According to "A New Badis Badis sp. Scarlet" By Kevin Korotev, it mentions, "The 26th AQUALOG NEWS has a headline, 'Fantastic Dwarf Badis Discovered in Assam Lately'. Frank Schafer writes the article. In the article, the author states that the fish was first imported at the beginning of June 1999. He also states (I summarize) that it is NOT one of the 3 presently known species; It is a dwarf. The article ends with this, "All the Badis known to date are cave-spanners…"

From Aquaworld, it states. "Debatable subspecies, it is so utterly different from all other Badis badis, that it will probably be defined as a species instead of a subspecies. Then finally the genus Badis will no longer be monotypical."

anyway, breeding the members of the Badis group is a fairly straightforward issue. i've read an article on breeding B. b. burmanicus and i suppose it can be applied to breeding the Scarlet Badis as well. the badis love hiding places and giving them caves like a terracotta pot or a clay flowerpot will do.

In this article, "Breeding Badis Bengalensis (aka Badis sp. scarlet)" by Arthit Prasartkul, he wrote, "... the male chased the female into a clump of java moss and embraced the female, just like those bubble-nester bettas do when spawning. I saw small clear eggs dropping scatterly into the vegetation; some fell into the gravel and some attached to java moss or even on the side-glass. The male would then chase the female away and begin to guard the eggs." Eh, so much for using the 'cave'! :wink:

... the young are small and need tiny foods for the first day, in this case, provide either infusoria or some other source of microscopic food, say java moss from an established tank.

My 'Scarlet frys' took a big casualty hit (my fault) when I introduced too many variables... transferring them to another grow-out tank, introducing too many snails and having too clean a tank!. I'm not sure at this point whether those egg-sac frys are ultra-sensitive to transfers or the snails having a buffet!

BTW, if your pygmy corys have outgrown those vinegar eels, can I borrow your mature VEC? My newly innoculated culture won't be viable/ready to feed these tiny frys.

...another thing, the majority of scarlets being offered for sale are male. :wink:

Let's put it this way... IF only males were available, I wouldn't have bothered buying any. I've seen them at LFS in the past and yes, all males. Seeing available females always give me that spine-tingling excitement (hey, I'm still referring to the fishes!!! )

[molahs4]

In response to our previous conversation, I started a thread about the fish. The response I got was yet another name. As you mentioned in one of the articles you referred to, they have given the "scarlet" Badis a new, redundant name: Dario dario.

I have had my females for almost a month now, and still no sign of fry. It is a community tank, not a breeding tank, although it is pretty full of plants. I have 3 males and 3 females in a 10 gallon with a pair of australe and black mollies. I think one of the female Darios may be albino, so I'm very excited to see an adult male albino as product of their union. Heck, I'm also hoping that my other pairs make babies, so it all may be wishful thinking.

[RonWill]

Interesting thread you've got going there Scott, but I think 'Scarlet' Badis sounds so much more alluring and tempestuous (like in Kenny Roger's "Scarlet Fever"). "Dario dario" is such a doofy name for such a pretty fish.

However if you're serious about getting some frys from your pairs and stop wishful thinking, I humbly suggest that you move 'em to a smaller tank. FWIW, my Scarlets have spawned a second time :wink:

The breeders now reside in another small plastic tank and I'm leaving the newly hatched frys occupy the 'old tank' instead of risking die-offs while transferring them.

When you get a good spawn, do be mindful of the fry's food requirement since 'tiny' is a gross understatement. I'm quite sure that these fellas are even smaller than newly hatched betta frys.

oh... and female scarlets DO eat their youngs.

[molahs4]

Truth be told, my wife and I are expecting our first child. No, not a fish, a human. For now, I won't be able to give the fish the kind of nurturing that they need, so the best I can do is hope things work out naturally.

In a couple months when things become easier to manage, I may get myself a little 5 gallon, put on some Barry White, and let the B.b.'s (or D.d.'s, or whatever they are called today) go to work. I may do the same with my australe too. Hopefully someone with the focus on fish can be more helpful in the meantime.

When the time comes, I will probably be posting pictures of our little fry at the link below.

[A.Rashid]

Congrats Scott, Having a child is an exciting experience and the best moments I ever had in my life. do keep us posted on the progress when the baby arrives to this world.

Sent my regards and congrats to your wife too and tell her: more rest, good food and less work!!!! and may be see fish to relax hehehehe

[PohSan]

Congrats also. Me too, I just got a baby boy on end of April this year. I can really understand how you feels now.

However, having a child also means that you have lesser time for Killies. Hope that you are able to cope it.

[RonWill]

Truth be told, my wife and I are expecting our first child. No, not a fish, a human.

Hiya Scott, it looks like you're 'spawning' too! :wink:. Congrats seems to be in order and may your little fry, urm... I meant kiddo, brings you much happiness (although some said that the guy who wrote 'the joys of fatherhood', is either high on weed or drunk!).

When the time comes, I will probably be posting pictures of our little fry at the link below.

While I eagerly await your pics (which 'little fry' are you referring to?), here's a short update on my Scarlets.

Spawned : Sept 29th 2003 (get your magnifiers!)
Hatched : Oct 1st. Egg-sac takes about 3 days to absorb.
Now : Oct 24th, 3mm free-swimming fry.

Scarlet fry taking a shut-eye on a frogbit.


This bugger is tiny! but even at 3mm, the body morphology and 1st rays on the pelvic fins, under the stomach, are developing. All images clickable for larger resolution.

Frys are hard to raise without appropriate first-foods and take exceptionally long before they reach free-swimming stage. Of the 100 odd hatchlings, I figure there's no more than 15 frys now... but I just saw fresh frys from my third spawn! I take no credit in this... these prolific fellas really breed like rabbits!

[Image links edited 041213]

[kebuchan]

Hey Ronnie,

I know this is resurrecting a 4 year old post but here goes...

I was reading through some of your posts on scarlet badis (dario dario) and your accounts of breeding them etc. Fascinating. great pictures too.

I bought 4 scarlet badis (dario dario) and 6 badis badis.... at a fish club meet. Also a few weeks before that picked up a pair of badis ruber from the local pet store.

I wanted to ask a couple of questions:

1. How large was your breeding tank?
2. Did you only have a pair in there or a group? I can't sex mine!
3. How big were your fish when you spawned them (scarlet and blue badis)

My Scarlet badis are about 3/4", really slim, "petite". I don't know if they're still "growing" or if they're old enough to spawn.

Thanks!!

Kevin

[RonWill]

Hi Kevin and welcome. Work schedules are tight and apologies for the late response and I don't mind keen interest with old threads (if my memory can keep up).

1. How large was your breeding tank?
Plastic critter tanks, 5gal, or approx 12"L x 8"W x 8"H, with the short side (width) facing front. Java moss filled the rear 3/4 for ample privacy, plus a small air-driven sponge filter. Water depth was about 7", I think.

2. Did you only have a pair in there or a group? I can't sex mine!
Two pairs. Well conditioned with assorted live foods; tubifex and daphnia/moina. No interest in prepared foods, ie. flakes or micro-pellets. Males are strikingly beautiful while females are bland or with very little colors.

3. How big were your fish when you spawned them (scarlet and blue badis) & My Scarlet badis are about 3/4", really slim, "petite". I don't know if they're still "growing" or if they're old enough to spawn
Same size as yours but mine were really fat (females looked like they swallowed a ping-pong ball, when view from above). My breeders, and the youngs I subsequently raised, were no larger than 1".

Some observations;
Don't treat the scarlets like cichlids... they do not require a shell or pot to spawn in. More like egg scatterers and the bloody eggs are tiny!!!!

If you're game to try, condition the sexes separately till they're well rounded and introduce at least 2 pairs into the setup described above.

Feed very sparingly and observe them eating from afar. They're somewhat skittish.

Leave them for a week and remove the breeders. Shake the moss vigorously and observe the bottom of the tank. If you see very tiny reflections or transparent pearls, like fish scales, most likely these are the eggs.

Use the most aged water you have and add a drop of Liquidfry #1 to increase microscopic organism boom. The new hatchlings are not immediate free-swimmers but can take a while before they start clinging to the sides of the tank.

Require microscopic-sized live foods for 1~2 months (could be longer) before introducing daphnia. Growth-rate extremely slow, which was why I gave up after a few batches. Had around 200 of assorted sized scarlets when I cleared everything.

Memory fails me but if you need more details, I'll try harder to recall. No promise, although my earlier postings should be fairly accurate. Hope this helps and if it did, do get back to us with updates, ya?

[kebuchan]

Ron,

Thanks for all the information!

I lost two of the 4 I had. I found one dead one day, not sure what happened. And a few days later I found the other one inside of my sponge filter. The filter is set very low, it bubbles about once every second or slightly more, not sure how that guy got in there.

Anyway, now left with just the two.

I have gravel in my 5G, from your picture of the fry it appears that you didn't. Would you recommend gravel or bare?

And what temperature was your water at?.... I guess you didn't have a heater.

Thanks,

Kevin

[stormhawk]

Hello Kevin,

Since Ronnie hasn't responded, from memory, he kept the Dario fry in a bare bottom tank with some moss and if I recall, a few frogbits as cover. The fry are bottom hugging buggers so if there was gravel you might have a hard time spotting them. I had a hard time myself spotting them when I first saw them at Ron's place, which was ages ago though.

I do recall however that they eventually ended up in a huge half-filled 4 foot tank with a bucketload of hornwort on the surface. They had some young Aphyosemion australe as tankmates at that point of time. Temperature was not known, but it was very cool for a tank in the tropics.

When I helped Ronnie to collect the whole bunch of Dario from that tank, the little guys were all over the place and most were of differing sizes. That said, the females were obviously gravid then, and like Ronnie says, they looked as if they swallowed a ping-pong ball (table tennis ball).

[shentake]

where i can buy badis2 the blue and red (dario?)

[islandangels]

Im looking for the Badis also ! Can anyone help us out ? I think Ive asked this before. Great site guy and gals . There is a ton of onfo here. And a bunch of really nice people too.

Tom,