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Thread: Fish Gasping for air. HELP!!!

  1. #1
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    Fish Gasping for air. HELP!!!

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    Hi,

    I am experiencing yet another episode of my fish gasping for air when I watch them early in the morning and it's has been going on for 2 days now . I have just change my FL lite(120w) to PL lite(144w) and two days ago when I check them in the morning all my fish and shrimps are at the surface gasping for air. When I was using FL lite my fish was ok. Why is this happening? a change in wattage does effect the photosynthesis of the plant? the only thing I notice I saw was the my red plant become redder and green plant more green..
    If I have a dollar & you have a dollar & we swap, neither is better off. BUT if I have an idea & you have an idea & we swap we are both richer

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    Rashid,

    It must be something to do with the CO2. What are you using? A gas tank or a yeast bottle? If you are using a gas tank, do you let the CO2 run 24 hours non-stop or do you use a solenoid valve?

    Loh K L

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    Loh,

    I running my CO² using a gas tank. the funny thing is that. why this air gasping thing does not happen when I was usig FL lite but now it did when I switched to PL.

    the only logical explanation I can think of is maybe when using FL lite, the plants does not work really" hard" to photosynthesis; they do but not that hardbut when on PL lite they work all out since they got brighter lite.thus during the nite the perpire hence take up more O².

    does my theory make sense? anyway that's my theory only dunno whats the real scientific explanation yet. hope you guys can help.
    If I have a dollar & you have a dollar & we swap, neither is better off. BUT if I have an idea & you have an idea & we swap we are both richer

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.Rashid
    the only logical explanation I can think of is maybe when using FL lite, the plants does not work really" hard" to photosynthesis;
    If the plants are working hard to photosynthesis, there should be enough O2 in the water to last throughout the night. If your plants are pearling, the water will be saturated with O2.

    To KL's question, is your CO2 on solenoid (timer) or on 24 hrs?
    Did you add in additional bio-load to your tank besides changing the FL to PL?
    When was the last time you clean your filter?
    Zulkifli

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    CO² not on solenoid timer, it's on 24/7
    No addional bioload but decrease in bioload .. 2 of my killies died: fade off
    The last time I clean my filter was 1 week b4 I swap FL to PL.
    If I have a dollar & you have a dollar & we swap, neither is better off. BUT if I have an idea & you have an idea & we swap we are both richer

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    Rashid, I don't know what causes your fish to gasp on the surface but I would suggest you rig up an air pump and aerate the tank every night after the lights go off. I run my CO2 non-stop too and my air pump which is hooked on timer, will start to run 2 hours after the lights go off. 2hours before the lights come on again, the pump stops.

    A friend who visited Amano's ADA headquarters in Japan told me all Amano's tanks run air pumps at night too.

    Loh K L

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    Ok thanx all for your advice...
    I will monitor the tanks as closely as possible and see if my theory really works. if not then pump air at nite will be my best solution.
    If I have a dollar & you have a dollar & we swap, neither is better off. BUT if I have an idea & you have an idea & we swap we are both richer

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    Changing your light to one more powerful would only increase the dissolved O2 level in your tank at night.

    You stated you are running a CO2 tank. Are you building up a large excess in your reactor so that it continues dissolving CO2 well into the night after llights go out? If this is the case then you may want to lower your bubble rate as low as pH will allow. A lot of undissolved CO2 when the lights go out can spike your pH downward and add alot of unnecessary gas into the water column.

    Do you have any surface movement in your tank at all? You may want to experiment with some during the day and see if that has any effect, as long as it doesn't offgas a lot of the CO2 you put in the tank. Let your pH readings be your guide there.

    You may want to check your regulator and make sure there is no gas getting past your solenoid, if you use one of them.

    A powerhead or airstone for surface movement, as suggested previously, may also help.
    Regards,
    David Grim

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    Rashid,

    Questions:
    1) how big is your tank in WxDxH?
    2) what is your KH/PH just before light on and just after light off?
    3) any hiden dead fishes in the tank?
    4) how often you change water and qty?
    5) how long is your light on period?

    You new PL light is now brighter compare to the old used FL lamps. It is normally not recommended to change all at the same time but I guess you have the 144watts in single housing. Try shorten the light period in the beginning by 1~2 hours, increasing slowly over a few days.

    The new lamps may have increase the photosynthesis. If that's the case, the tank may be short of CO2 that result in insufficient O2 production by plants. This is especially true if you have more than 8.5 hrs photo period. When light is off, plants will soon respirate, taking up the O2 and by morning, the fishes will be deprive of O2. A visual indication of sufficient O2 production is the plants must start to bubble by the 3rd hour of light on which indicate that the water is saturated with O2 at that point of time. With further light on of another 4~5 hours would produce enough O2 for the rest of the day till next light on (for both fishes and plants use). For that to occur, you must have enough CO2 because plants take up the C and expel excess O2 during phtosynthesis process.

    Having said that, excess CO2 would also cause toxification like what timebomb mentioned that result in the same symptom you encounter.

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    Discusdave: Thanx for the imput.

    FC:Questions:
    1) how big is your tank in WxDxH?
    3x2x2ft tank
    2) what is your KH/PH just before light on and just after light off?
    never measure kH but pH not measured yet.
    3) any hiden dead fishes in the tank?
    not hidden dead fish ..heheh I do stock check everynite hehehe
    4) how often you change water and qty?
    every week 1/4 water change
    5) how long is your light on period?
    9hrs a day

    I do not know how the explain it scientifically but today this morning when I checked my planted comm tank. my fishes are all swimming naturally and not at the surface gasping for air. but do notice heavy gills movement meaning heavy breathing but not as bad as when they were at the surface the previous days.

    I will still monitor the condition this few days and will let you all know the outcome...
    If I have a dollar & you have a dollar & we swap, neither is better off. BUT if I have an idea & you have an idea & we swap we are both richer

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    Fish Gasping for air. HELP!!!

    There have been some terrific suggestions on this, but I thought I would share my experience. Recently, I encountered a similar problem in my tank when I observed all my livestock gasping at the surface prior to the light turning on. I temporarily solved the problem by placing a powerhead near the surface to create turbulence.

    Upon further inspection, I determined the cause to be the CO2 reactor. I have a canister CO2 system with a solenoid and pH controller (i.e. CO2 only enters the tank when the controller opens the solenoid). Apparently, CO2 was building up in the reactor and then dissolving during the night. This was never an issue with the two previous reactors nor has it occurred since I replaced the internal reactor.

    If you are unable to determine the problem's cause, I would suggest installing a power head to agitate the surface either 24/7 or during lights off (i.e. attach it to a timer).

    Another possible issue may be how tightly your lid is fitting your tank. I'm aware of instances in which lids fit tanks so tightly that any outgassed CO2 was unable to escape and got trapped in the airspace between the water and the lid.

    Good luck.

    Daphne

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    Daphne,

    Thank you for the enlightenment. You strike another idea, (due to our warm weather here) one can also leave the fan on which is blowing on the water surface.

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    Freddy,

    The fan blowing across the surface is a terrific idea. I have done that in the past to help with heat. It would work quite effectively to create both surface turbulence for the CO2 problem and the heat problem. I hadn't thought of that but it would take care of 2 problems simultaneously.

    The only downside is that it would cause some evaporation but I think that only becomes an issue on tiny tanks.

    Daphne

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    thanx daphne...

    Thanx Daphne and Freddy...

    I forgot to update you all on how is my fish in my tank now...

    after the 18/10. my fish wsn't up on the surface gasping for air. and they are doing just fine now with juz 9 hours of lite and co² 24/7.

    My only conclusion is when I switched from FL to PL the plant need time to adjust with the new lighting thus maybe less O² was produced or wat wat ever scientific reason which i dunno.

    anywayever since the pl lite were used.. my plants grow like mad.. so now thinking of rescaping...was really inpired by Loh's tank.. but me not gonna copycat him. got to design a tank meant for apistos and tetras. Killies gotta be in their own tank o avoid "jealousy" from the apistos.
    If I have a dollar & you have a dollar & we swap, neither is better off. BUT if I have an idea & you have an idea & we swap we are both richer

  15. #15

    Re: thanx daphne...

    A.Rashid,

    Fish gasping at the surface and/or heavy gill movement are symptoms of either low O2, high CO2, or both. Without knowing your kH and pH, it is very difficult to assess the situation. IMO, kH and pH test kits are essential for CO2 injected tanks, especially those in Singapore which is notorious for soft water. I am assuming you are already familiar with the concepts of water chemistry in a planted tank, so I won’t go into details.

    But if I had to guess, the fauna are gasping because of both low O2 and high CO2 levels since switching from FL to PL. When you elevate light level, plants use more nutrients. Did you compensate by fertilizing more? If not, then certain nutrient(s) can become limiting and plant growth would stunt, thereby reducing O2 output as well as increasing the accumulation of CO2 since the plants aren’t utilizing it. Aside from all that, if your kH is low, then you may experience frequent drastic pH crashes (more reason to get yourself a kH test kit :wink: ).

    Nonetheless, I am glad your fish are faring well, but I just wanted to offer my view for future references.

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    Re: thanx daphne...

    Quote Originally Posted by caseSENSITIVE
    A.Rashid,
    When you elevate light level, plants use more nutrients. Did you compensate by fertilizing more? If not, then certain nutrient(s) can become limiting and plant growth would stunt, thereby reducing O2 output as well as increasing the accumulation of CO2 since the plants aren’t utilizing it.
    I think that's the answer Rashid is looking for, which eludes everyone, I think.

    Welcome to the forum caseSENSITIVE. What's your real name anyway, since it is a bit too hard to type your nick.
    Zulkifli

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    Re: thanx daphne...

    Thanx caseSENSITIVE, I learn my lesson well....

    Zul.... Thanx also ....
    If I have a dollar & you have a dollar & we swap, neither is better off. BUT if I have an idea & you have an idea & we swap we are both richer

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by zmzfam
    Welcome to the forum caseSENSITIVE. What's your real name anyway, since it is a bit too hard to type your nick.
    Please pardon my need for anonymity on public forums. I've had a frightening incidence with a stalker in the past that I do not wish to be repeated.

    However, I'll compromise and sign with p-lvp and reserve real names for private correpondence. :wink:

    p-lvp

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseSENSITIVE
    Please pardon my need for anonymity on public forums. I've had a frightening incidence with a stalker in the past that I do not wish to be repeated.
    I would suppose if one had been a victim of stalking, he or she would be reluctant to disclose his or her identity on public forums.

    Welcome to the forum, p-Ivp. Are you a celebrity? Could you be Michael Jackson or Madonna?

    Here in Singapore, I've heard of stalkers but they are rare and the few that exist usually hang around places like chat rooms. I've always insisted that anyone who comes here reveals his or her real name because I believe that would make this forum a better place. But I can make exceptions to the rule and I've done so with one of my own moderators. Mac-user who moderates the FAQ sub-forum hangs around places where hackers prowl so he's reluctant to reveal his real name too.

    Right from the start, I knew I can't enforce the "no-anonymous posts" on everyone so I wrote the rule as part of forum etiquette. Hope you will stick around, p-Ivp. You obviously are someone who's good with planted tanks and I'm sure the folks here would benefit a lot from your help.

    Loh K L

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