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Thread: Simpsonicthys constanciae eggs... dead?

  1. #1
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    Simpsonicthys constanciae eggs... dead?

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    Dear all,

    I've just harvested my 1st batch of eggs after having maintained the Simp constanciae "Barra de Sćo Joćoo" for about a year (I think!).

    These were originally from Kwek Leong and although these fishes don't possess the grandeur of the magnificus, they are still very adorable fellas. See this page for their pics.

    Recently, I was pleasantly surprised by a request for the constanciae by Qing Dong from China.

    I thought... if I could help out, heck! why not?, so I experimented with 2 different vessels, for 2 reversed trios (4M/2F) to spawn in the same tank, and collected a nice number of eggs over a 3 day honeymoon (see what you get when you're generous with live foods?! :wink: ).


    This will be going out to Qing Dong :wink:

    There's sufficient eggs even for me to keep some for posterity. Now I have questions...



    Is that opaque looking egg dead?? Bigger pics 1 & 2.

    Since I've never incubated Simp constanciae eggs before, what is their incubation period? I've labelled it;
    "COLLECT: DEC 4th '03 / HATCH: FEB 4th '04"
    ...which means a 2-mth period, temperature dependent of course.

    Can someone advise Qing Dong (and me too! :wink: )
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Ronnie,

    When I had them, I had very good hatch-out rates after 6 weeks of incubation. At one time, I had so many I just didn't know what to do with them.

    Loh K L

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    Quote Originally Posted by timebomb
    When I had them, I had very good hatch-out rates after 6 weeks of incubation.
    Ok.... so that means 2 months isn't too far fetched then, if China's weather is cooler.

    Kwek Leong, on the other hand, maybe I should just tell him to watch out for eyed-up eggs and dunk them. Oh well... "never try, never know!"
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Ronnie, I have a pair from Loh too. All these while I'm not able to get any fertile eggs . The female laid many eggs but none are good. Can we work on it in the name of conservation? I pass you my female or you 'lend' me a male?

    Gan.

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    Ronnie, one more question, if Simp. is an annual, why are you incubating the eggs on the wool like what you did for the non annual?

    Gan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turaco
    All these while I'm not able to get any fertile eggs . The female laid many eggs but none are good. Can we work on it in the name of conservation? I pass you my female or you 'lend' me a male?
    Is it the male or you that's no good?!! Just kidding!! But for conservation, sure!

    I have 2 females here and extra males. You can swing by and pick up a male. There's 5 males and 2 females in the tank... I think.

    There's a pair that I'll want Jian Yang to spawn and distribute as well.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Ronnie, i'd be more than honoured to help out in the conservancy project. perhaps we could set up a Conservancy Plan Group within the forum itself. and i propose that we start by maintaining a breeding log per person who has a pair of the constanciae. perhaps i could set up a webpage with breeding logs for us to follow up. this would go far in maintaining the genetic diversity of this particular population.

    if everything goes well, i'll check the breeding bowl for eggs from the fulminantis this Saturday. by the way, if its just one pair, how many days should i leave the breeding bowl in? they bred on Monday, 2 days after they arrived home from the gathering.

    another point to add, i realise that my Simp. love to breed when the lights go out. and the odd part is, at roughly around 3 am in the morning, i'll see the pair dive into the peat and wiggle like no tomorrow. :wink:
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Dawkinsia assimilis, Heros efasciatus - Looking for Pelvicachromis taeniatus
    -back to old school fish-

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    Quote Originally Posted by stormhawk
    Ronnie, i'd be more than honoured to help out in the conservancy project. perhaps we could set up a Conservancy Plan Group within the forum itself. and i propose that we start by maintaining a breeding log per person who has a pair of the constanciae. perhaps i could set up a webpage with breeding logs for us to follow up. this would go far in maintaining the genetic diversity of this particular population.
    Jian Yang, that's a very good idea and I can maintain my own log, but just exactly who is suppose to co-ordinate and consolidate the data? I'm spread out thinner than Lurpak butter on mixed-grain loaf and... (well, you get the picture!) Work on a standard page and make it user friendly for entries.

    another point to add, i realise that my Simp. love to breed when the lights go out. and the odd part is, at roughly around 3 am in the morning, i'll see the pair dive into the peat and wiggle like no tomorrow. :wink:
    I, too, like it when the lights goes out but hasn't it occured to you to stop oggling at them?
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    i think i can do the consolidating and co-ordinating data bit but of course with some help lah. by the way, when can i get the pair from you? i'm free this weekend. and yes, when should i take out the breeding bowl from the fulminantis tank? it's been 4 days since they started spawning on Monday. i'm worried about leaving the bowl in there for too long.

    ogling? lol, i just happened to see them dive in at the right time.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Dawkinsia assimilis, Heros efasciatus - Looking for Pelvicachromis taeniatus
    -back to old school fish-

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    Don't be too worried. Just collect the peat once a week and that will make your job easier and lesser work.
    Au SL

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    Just collected the peat from the fulminantis tank. Was poring through the wet peat with my girlfriend but we couldn't seem to find any eggs. Pretty disappointed because we were planning on seeing the first eggs from the pair. Found alot of little stones though, really tiny ones, but we still couldn't find any eggs. My questions are,

    1) Are Simpsonichthys eggs much more adhesive as compared to those from nothos? This might explain as to why I couldn't find any.. perhaps they were stuck to bits of peat which I didn't examine closely?

    2) Exactly how small are these eggs?

    3) Are they the same colour as notho eggs?

    4) Judging from experience, what's the estimated number of eggs a young female will lay? (rough estimates not exact figures so I got a yardstick to follow the next time round)

    Anyway, I decided to give some benefit of the doubt to both myself and my girlfriend and ended up packing up the peat in a plastic container. Pretty air-tight which means I won't have a major ant infestation.
    Set the wetting date to the 16th of Jan 04, which is exactly 6 weeks after today. Hopefully I'll get some fry. Set-up the fulminantis pair for breeding again. Been feeding them with frozen bloodworms, live tubifex worms and the occasional snack of grindal worms. Might try using frozen black mosquito larvae. :wink:
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Dawkinsia assimilis, Heros efasciatus - Looking for Pelvicachromis taeniatus
    -back to old school fish-

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    To answer your question,

    1) Simps. eggs are usually more adhesive than Nothos eggs. It's inbetween the Notho and Fp. species. (FP. species have much more adhesive eggs among the 3 species based on what I've esperience)

    2) Simps. eggs are slightly smaller than Nothos eggs(We're using the N. rachovii wggs as comparision here). On estimates, it's about two third of RAC eggs in size.

    3) Yes the fertile eggs are clear and shines under light. Eggs that are white are infertile eggs.

    4) I've females that can give me 100 eggs per week and some not even 30 eggs per week. There is no way we can judge this and there's no way a female can be compared to another on the quantity of eggs that they will give you each week.
    Au SL

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    Quote Originally Posted by turaco
    Ronnie, one more question, if Simp. is an annual, why are you incubating the eggs on the wool like what you did for the non annual?
    Gan, in my excitement of picking out Simp eggs from the peat, I missed your post but no... that's not wool... it's toilet tissue!

    Why?

    A couple of reasons. Firstly, my eyes aren't that great and when you're doing things as late as I do, it's rather difficult to differentiate eggs from peat!

    Secondly, good eggs stand out against a lighter background, just so that I pack in viable eggs and setting them in rows make it easier to count.

    It's more a novelty idea than standard proceedure :wink:
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Ronnie, finally succeeded in getting the constanciae to spawn. But the odd thing is, they laid eggs on the tank bottom. Counted about 4 clear eggs and at least 2 fungused eggs. Could it be that the fish pushed the eggs out while they were diving in the peat? I've got pics of the eggs and am rather perplexed. Could someone tell me what's going on??



    Fertile eggs? They're in the centre of the pic.



    One of the fungused eggs on java moss.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Dawkinsia assimilis, Heros efasciatus - Looking for Pelvicachromis taeniatus
    -back to old school fish-

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    Hi all,

    Would like to apologize, as I didn’t know that this topic was covered here. I had answered it in a new thread here

    Moderators, anyway to move my thread here??

    Regards,
    Gwee Sia Meng
    AKA 08742
    SAA 163
    Fish List

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    Quote Originally Posted by turaco
    I have a pair from Loh too. All these while I'm not able to get any fertile eggs . The female laid many eggs but none are good. Gan.
    Emmm after reading this post, I will not be surprise if the whole batch of fish are sterile. A few months back I collected tons of eggs but non were fertile.

    regards
    Gwee Sia Meng
    AKA 08742
    SAA 163
    Fish List

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    Concerns/question from Stormhawk

    Sia Meng, I cannot move the thread from within the same forum, so I copy & pasted your response here.

    Concerns/question from Stormhawk

    Quote Originally Posted by Sia Meng
    Hi

    Stormhawk had PM me on certain things and these are some question asked by him. For the benefits of everyone, I will answer his concerns/question here

    Quote:
    My breeding pair doesn't seem to be rather productive. Didn't spot any eggs when I removed the breeding bowl recently. Anyway I just decided to remove and store the peat in a container.


    Be patient my friend, eggs from the SAA groups are more sticky as compared to nothos, so it is common if you didn’t see any eggs as the fine peat particles are adhered to the eggs. You might be surprised when you wet the eggs.

    Quote:
    My constanciae however have spawned but oddly they laid their eggs on the bottom of the tank. This is really perplexing because they just don't seem to enter the breeding bowl.


    Try this for “stubborn”(fish that refuse to go into the bowl) fish.

    Condition the fish for a week, then get a tall jar (pickle jar) that is sufficient to for the fish to maneuver around. Of course fill the jar with peat and water. Let them breed in there for 3~4 days. Do not feed your fish as uneaten food will contaminate the peat.

    However you will have tons of peat to handle. I did that when my first pair of magnificus refused to enter the breeding bowl and it works.

    I hope this will help.

    Regards,
    _________________
    Gwee Sia Meng
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Ahh, finally a tactic. I'll be on the lookout for a larger vase. Seems the vase that I got from IKEA the other day isn't big enough for these giants Anyway, seems they have started to spawn in the bowl following the removal of the java moss. I realised that they get pretty skittish as compared to my juvenile magnificus trio and my fulminantis pair.

    As to the fertility of this fish, the eggs they laid on the moss and tank bottom are pretty clear in colour. I've observed those eggs fungusing in the tank already. But I have no doubt that this pair Ronnie gave me is a superbly fertile pair. Thanks Ronnie!. Am working on getting them lovers to do a romp in the bowl
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Dawkinsia assimilis, Heros efasciatus - Looking for Pelvicachromis taeniatus
    -back to old school fish-

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormhawk
    Ahh, finally a tactic. I'll be on the lookout for a larger vase. Seems the vase that I got from IKEA the other day isn't big enough for these giants Anyway, seems they have started to spawn in the bowl following the removal of the java moss. I realised that they get pretty skittish as compared to my juvenile magnificus trio and my fulminantis pair.
    Jian Yang, besides my BIVs, these constanciae are next on my skittish list and wait till you see what I resorted to... when I was packing them and decided to shoot their pics.

    Pickle jars may not be widely available but since the Chinese Lunar New Year is around the corner, you can use those goodie jars made from plastic and traditionally has a red screw-on cover.

    I bought a tall one and didn't get to use it. The cover was modified with breathing holes and if you want, you can drop by and pick it up.

    As to the fertility of this fish, the eggs they laid on the moss and tank bottom are pretty clear in colour. I've observed those eggs fungusing in the tank already. But I have no doubt that this pair Ronnie gave me is a superbly fertile pair. Thanks Ronnie!. Am working on getting them lovers to do a romp in the bowl
    Never judge the fertility of a female, by how gravid it looks (or a book by it's cover), but you've got a very healthy pair and I'm sure you'll get some good eggs.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Ronnie, well whaddya know! I found the female in the breeding bowl. And along came the male who wiggled and shimmied his way in! :wink:
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Dawkinsia assimilis, Heros efasciatus - Looking for Pelvicachromis taeniatus
    -back to old school fish-

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