Camallanus Worms Again!!!

[hobbit6003]

Hi Kwek Leong,

The problem with camallanus, is that not only must you treat the infected fish, but also the whole tank as well.

Some camallanus sp. are livebearing whilst others are egg laying, whose larvae would have to find an intermediate host to live in, before moving to your fish. The intermediate hosts are usually microorganisms known as copepods, which can be present in your planted tank.

Thus, by just treating them in a hospital will only serve to eradicate those worms in the fishes, but not those larvae in the main tank, who are waiting to re-infect your fish.

So far I've found a avian dewormer that contains both levamisole and praziquantel, bought it in a bird shop in Serangoon North. It is quite effective, and had used that to treat some of the hobbyists' apistos and asian red arowanas, successfully. The brand is called Avian Science.

So far, the dosage I've used lies between 5-10ppm, around that.

Cheers,

Kenny

[timebomb]

Thanks for the input, Kenny.

I didn't know there were more than one species of Camallanus worms . I'll be dropping by at Serangoon North to pick up the medication you recommended. I think I will dose every tank, whether or not there are Camallanus worms inside.

Loh K L

[promethean_spark]

I bought levisimole drench and got a 60 gram packet for about 15$, pure levisimole. I used it when my angelfish showed calamanus. Cured them and it's been 4 months since I've seen a worm (and they've spawned since). It did seem to hurt hydrocotyle, watersprite and hornwort. It also seems to kill most of the visible microlife (water fleas, ect), and causes snails to go into shock and look dead for a few days, though they seem to recover.

I've read it's best to feed your fish some food treated with levisimole every month or two to clear out their system. I use freeze dried plankton because it'll absorb the elixir and will also hold it's shape. Some fish won't eat treated food though.

I don't use tubifex, so probably it came in some fish from the LFS. Seems a good idea to preventatively treat all newcomers for this since it can take a while to show up and may slip past quarantine.

[RonWill]

I think I will dose every tank, whether or not there are Camallanus worms inside

Kwek Leong, when you treated the entire tank, instead of the individual fish in a hospital tank, how did the plants, snails, shrimp and bio reacted?

Will appreciate dosage details and your observations, as I'll be treating the ZII tank.

I took alot of 'upskirt' pics of the anus but most of them were either blurry or the worm has retracted. Only one decent pic of the worm.
(worm was very vague so I out-lined it in red)
More pics here.

[timebomb]

Whew, thank goodness it was your female that caught the worms. If it had been the male, I would suspect the worms came from my tank.

I'm afraid I can't tell you the dosages as you know how sloppy I am when it comes to dosing anything. All I can say is I took one teaspoonful of levamisole and diluted it in a jar of water. About half an hour after I poured in the solution into the tank, I saw the worms dangling out from the fishes anuses. But there was one particular fish whose worm was pretty stubborn so I added another dose of levamisole.

No harm came to the plants. But a few days after the levamisole treatment, all my mosses turned brown. I discovered that my CO2 tank was empty and I thought that was the cause. But it's been about 2 weeks since I got another tank going and the mosses are still brown. It could be due to a higher bioload though as I added many more fish to the tank recently.

Ronnie, now that the Camallanus has made an appearance in your tanks, I have to warn you that you will be plagued with this problem for a long time. If I were you, I will dose every tank whether or not there are worms inside.

Loh K L

[zmzfam]

Kwek Leong,

I may be wrong but doesn't the fish with the worms looks like a male?

[RonWill]

...now that the Camallanus has made an appearance in your tanks, I have to warn you that you will be plagued with this problem for a long time. If I were you, I will dose every tank whether or not there are worms inside

Kwek Leong, I updated the ZIIs thread with this post, in which I said, "Since the male has settled in very nicely, I decided to shoot more pics hoping to see the much-revelled colors. Instead, I saw a sore-butt".

It's the male dangling 'his thing' (pun intended) but through no fault of yours. However, it speaks volumes on my sloppy quarantine proceedures.

If nothing went south in your tanks after treatment, I'll guesstimate dosing for the ZIIs' tank first lest I run out of Levamisole hydrochloride. Once I can source and acquire adequate amounts of it, I'll zap the rest of the tanks... just to get a good night's sleep.

Not knowing the percentage strength of the medication, I've checked with Kenny on approximate dosing and will update as necessary.

Just to be sure I get it correct. What's the strength of the second dosage like when you said, "But there was one particular fish whose worm was pretty stubborn so I added another dose of levamisole". Judging from what you've been through, these Camallanus are a pain in the your butt too! and believe we both want to get past this episode.

While I'm at it, I'll probably test the medication on tubifex and tiny white worms to see if it kills them too (my heavy-handed feeding has led to a 'bed' of swaying tubifex on the substrate ) but foresee massive waterchanges just so things don't foul up.

PS: Would anyone be willing to join me and split shipping if I'm able to acquire Levamisole hydrochloride?

[timebomb]

"Since the male has settled in very nicely, I decided to shoot more pics hoping to see the much-revelled colors. Instead, I saw a sore-butt".

Oh no!! Is it really the male that got it? Sheesh, I'm sorry, Ronnie. I'm quite sure that when I caught it from the tank, it looked perfectly healthy. The remaining ZIIs in my tank are not showing any signs of infection so I really can't understand why the male I gave you has a sore butt.

Anyway, I've used the levamisole many times and so far, the only time the medication killed the fish was when I didn't dissolved it in a jar of water first. There were a few occasions I dissolved one teaspoon of levamisole in a jar and dose it into a small tank, that is, about 10 litres of water and the fish were cured without any casualties. I can say with some confidence that it's quite unlikely you will overdose and kill any fish. If you're unsure, I would suggest you dose a bit first and watch the fish closely. If it works, the worms will all start dangling out from their anuses and in an hour or 2, they will all fall out. If nothing happens, dose again. Keep dosing until the worms are all out. It's no use using a hospital tank. I did that many times but the fish got infected again when I moved them back to the tanks.

PS: Would anyone be willing to join me and split shipping if I'm able to acquire Levamisole hydrochloride?

Kenny Poh said he's looking to acquire some levamisole too. Maybe you should contact him. I've only a bit left so I can't give what I have to you as chances are the damn worm will make an appearance in my tanks again.

Loh K L

[hobbit6003]

Ronnie,

I've written to the overseas company which have the levamisole HCL powder drench, to enquire if they do sell to overseas clients. From their website, this don't seem to be the case.

Kwek Leong,

Remember the Avian Science brand of levamisole I recommended you, and you said it was ineffective?

Well, for that brand, I've gotten mixed successes, some of the apistos gotten cured, while others were not. The best success I've gotten so far, is in powder form of levamisole, which was supposed to be mixed into poultry feed and given to the poultry. The success rate is 100%, if prognosis is good.

Sad to say, after using them on a few of the hobbyists' camallanus infested fishes, I've ran out of the powder. I bought it through a friend whom I've also lost contact with.

Cheers,

Kenny

[ruyle]

Kenny,
I'm surprised the combo of levamisole/praziquantel wasn't as efficacious
as levamisole by itself. Was the med still in good shelf life? Or was the
concentrations of each med less than the levamisole by itself? Curious.
I'm thinking the levamisole for poultry would perhaps be of higher concentration due to higher blood volume (chickens vs parakeets) but of
course I could be all wet

Regards,

Bill
farang9

[hobbit6003]

Hi Bill,

I'm surprised myself too!

I couldn't remember what's the concentration of the levmisole HCL, but it was written on the bottle, and I dosed to make up about 8-10ppm in the tank.

I'm suspecting that the bottle may have past its expiry date, which wasn't stated.

Kwek Leong got it from the same source as mine, and he reported little no success with that too.

Therefore, I'm turning to internet shops that sells those powder drench for pigs and cattles. Ronnie found one source, but they don't seem to freight them overseas. I've just written to them to enquire if they do. They're based in USA.

Cheers,

Kenny

[RonWill]

Therefore, I'm turning to internet shops that sells those powder drench for pigs and cattles. Ronnie found one source, but they don't seem to freight them overseas.

Kenny, let me work on that and perhaps liaise with our US-based forumers regarding purchase and freight.

Anyway... instead of treating the ZIIs today, I almost killed them!

Diluted one teaspoon of gummy Levmisole to a litre of water and dosed that to their tank. Noticed the ZIIs (and only them) gasping at the surface.

At this time, they were easy to catch and transferred the 4 to the phototank and tried to take a pic of the blasted worm. The thing was so freaking small, I had to use the magnifier to get a proper look... and that's when things took a turn...

Got over-zealous and hit the ZIIs with a 2nd dose... and they went belly-up. In a frenzy, I returned them to fresh lightly-medicated water and ran moderate aeration.

... but I realize why the male had problems ridding the worm... he had twins





I'm telling you this, at the risk of looking pretty foolish, that all medications and antibiotics must be treated with respect.

[hobbit6003]

Ron,

That is why it is impt to know the concentration of the medication used, so that an appropriate dosage can be worked out.

I almost choked on my biscuit when you told me that, and I litrally lost ny voice over my exclamation!

Yeah, if they don't freight over, going through a proxy is our best bet.

Cheers,

Kenny

[timebomb]

Anyway... instead of treating the ZIIs today, I almost killed them!

Hmm, that's strange. I supposed the tank you mentioned is the one along the corridor wall, right, Ronnie? That tank is quite big and I'm surprised one or two teaspoons of levamisole can have that effect on the fish. I remember I dose one teaspoon to a 20 cm X 20 cm plastic tray with an infected Guppy and not only was the fish cured, she went on to drop many babies.

By the way, I also once used a pair of tweezers to pull the worm out from a female Rivulus which sort of fainted from an overdose of levamisole. She recovered from the rough treatment although someone told me the worms has hooks which will tear out the fish insides if they were pulled out by force.

Here's a pic of that Rivulus with the worm sticking out from her vent:



Loh K L

[hobbit6003]

Kwek Leong,

The problem is that different species of fishes would probably have a different threshold, as far as toxicity is concerned.

Metabolism of medication is usually process by the liver, the detox centre. So, it depends alot on how fast the drug is absorbed and processed by organs like liver, that determines the fish's tolerance and susceptibility to the drug. Er...I shall not discuss pharmacokinetics here, as I've forgotten quite a fair bit already, need a textbk in front of me. :P

Thus, the recommended dosage is usually within a safe range for most species of fishes. Out of this range, some fish may succumb.

Cheers,

Kenny

[/b]

[ruyle]

Kenny wrote:

Yeah, if they don't freight over, going through a proxy is our best bet.

Kenny, let me know what you guys come up with and I will send it over
by USPS priority mail. The danger of not sending it over quicker is that
most meds don't like temps over 86F for prolonged periods.

Bill
farang9

[hobbit6003]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your kind offer! Let me try and tie up with Ronnie first, and will let you know soonest possible!

Thanks!

Cheers,

Kenny

[timebomb]

Thus, the recommended dosage is usually within a safe range for most species of fishes. Out of this range, some fish may succumb.

Thanks for the good advice, Kenny. But actually, I already know that. It's just that I'm sloppy. I'm the type who when the doctor says "take 3 tablets every day, one after every meal" will gobble 3 tablets in the morning at one go

Loh K L

[RonWill]

I supposed the tank you mentioned is the one along the corridor wall, right, Ronnie? That tank is quite big and I'm surprised one or two teaspoons of levamisole can have that effect on the fish.

Yeah, it's one of the tanks along the wall, what I affectionately call "OceanFree 18incher" (24"L x 12"W x 18"H)...


I dosed tank with the solution (one teaspoon to 1 litre of water) and shortly after, saw the ZIIs at the surface. The others didn't even look one bit stress by the medication. In fact, I took some nice pics of the Europe-sourced ANNs, but that observation reflects what was said about the varying threshold of different fishes and IDK if guppies have higher tolerance or not.

Since I wanted to add the "Come-in-the-anus" worms to the gallery, the 4 ZIIs were placed in the phototank, with already medicated water from the main tank... plus a bit more med

By the way, I also once used a pair of tweezers to pull the worm out from a female Rivulus which sort of fainted from an overdose of levamisole. She recovered from the rough treatment although someone told me the worms has hooks which will tear out the fish insides if they were pulled out by force

Kwek Leong, the ZIIs looked like your 'fainted' Riv (exactly what I meant by bellying-up) and tempted as I was to grab a tweezer, I wasn't prepared for splewed intestines!

RIVs are tough mothers and hopefully, the ZIIs will pull through [didn't expect them to be that delicate!] <sigh>

Bill, thanks for the help! A couple of guys have expressed interest (or worry, whichever applicable) and I'll consolidate the order in one shipment. Meanwhile, let me go grab an asprin... my butt hurts.

[justjoin]

Hi all

I would like to know if anyone know how big can this C. worm grow?

How long will it take for the eggs(if any) to hatch/become worm if let said they are in the subtrate?

Because in 4-6 weeks ago, i found 1 such worm in my 20cm by 20cm xmas moss only container. To my surprise, it was around or at least 5-6cm in lenght.

Prior to reading this thread, i do not know what is it & how in ended up in xmas moss holding tray. The Xmas moss was havested from my previous planted 1.5ft tank in which i do fed the fishes(mainly H.rasbora) with tubifex worms....

I had used the moss to created a xmas moss wall in my new 2ft tank & reused partial of the subtarte too.

So far so good, did not see any of C. worm crawling in my new 2ft tank which i setted up 3 months ago, mainly all cardinal tetras.

thks
adrian