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Thread: Java Medaka

  1. #1
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    Java Medaka

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    Hi, fellas,

    I spent the better part of the morning taking pictures of the Java Medaka that Madan hand-carried for me from India. The fish can't be described as beautiful as they are completely plain white in colour but their eyes shine like headlights. They have very interesting breeding cycles though. The females carry the eggs outside their bodies in a clutch. I keep them in a heavily planted tank and now I have many fry.

    If you have tried taking fish pictures, you would know it takes a lot of patience to get a good picture. Besides that, you need luck too. I took about 200 pictures before I got this one. It shows a female carrying many eggs.



    I'm unsure if this fish is a killie. I'm also not sure of its scientific name but it could either be Oryzias melastigma or Oryzias dancena. If any of you know for sure, I would appreciate it very much if you let me know the correct scientific name.

    Loh K L

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    since it came from India, it may not be Java Medaka (Oryzias javanicus) but possibly Oryzias dancena which is from India.

    The one I posted looks slightly different from yours (no colour fringe on the anal fin) so perhaps mine is the javanicus instead. I don't remember asking the LFS where the fish came from, but then again the suppliers to LFS don't always give the right info. E.g. the LFS was told a particular barb came from Africa but in fact is the Rasbora vulcanus from West Sumatra.

    Here's the one I got.

    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Choy,

    First of all, welcome to killies.com forum. I admire your photography skills and I'm glad you decided to join this forum. We look forward to seeing more of your pictures even if they are not pictures of killies. I like your shrimp pictures very much too and I'm thinking of doing an album on them. If only I have more time

    About the Medaka, I think we have the same fish. But your fish looks less healthier than mine :wink: so maybe that's the reason there's no colour on your fish. I've been keeping the Medaka for a few weeks and they have been breeding like crazy in my planted tank.

    But your photo was taken much better so the lines and patterns are very clear on your fish.

    Loh K L

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    Hi guys!

    Choy! Fancy see you here too!

    I was thinking that the fishes could look different as a result of the water condition. Difference in pH, kH or even temperature are known to cause changes in the colors of the fish.

    The only other thing I can think of is color of substrate. I do know for sure that corydoras looks different with substrates of different colors.

    Cheers,

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    Quote Originally Posted by benny
    Hi guys!

    Choy! Fancy see you here too!

    I was thinking that the fishes could look different as a result of the water condition. Difference in pH, kH or even temperature are known to cause changes in the colors of the fish.

    The only other thing I can think of is color of substrate. I do know for sure that corydoras looks different with substrates of different colors.

    Cheers,
    Ja! in pursuit of fishes to take pics of :wink:

    a bit OT but I got my first cory from Plantas yesterday, the Corydoras atropersonatus also got a pair of Pseudosphromenus dayi

    Anyway you guys can expect me in here more often in pursuit of nice fishes to shoot
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    KL, I believe that the medakas, aka family Oryziidae are part of the Cyprinodontiformes. Last I read somewhere, they had a fleeting reference to the medakas being killifish.

    As to their care and breeding, I must say they are interesting subjects for breeding purposes. KL, perhaps you could distribute these Oryzias dancena? when their numbers boom the next time round :wink:
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

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    well, everything you wanted to know about ricefish

    stormhawk, nice to see you again. according to fishbase the ricefish belongs to the order Beloniformes.



    based on the drawings from Roberts most likely our fish is the O. dancena rather than the O. carnaticus, both of which are from the Indian subcontinent. agree?

    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    more good info HERE with a cladogram. :P

    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Great work, Choy.

    But from the diagrams alone, it's still a bit hard to tell. I showed my picture to a fish forum based in India yesterday and one of the guys there who caught the fish with Madan said it's a Oryzias latipes.

    Based on Roberts' drawings, the fish I have looks like the one in diagram A but mine is a female whereas the drawing is that of a male. The Oryzia latipes in Roberts' drawings (Diagram D) is a male and it does look like the males I have in my tanks. Males, as far as I know, have slimmer bodies than females.

    Unfortunately, I didn't get any good pictures of the males as I was concentrating on getting a good picture of the female with eggs yesterday. This is the best picture of a male I have.



    Loh K L

    Quote Originally Posted by stormhawk
    KL, I believe that the medakas, aka family Oryziidae are part of the Cyprinodontiformes. Last I read somewhere, they had a fleeting reference to the medakas being killifish.
    Jianyang, I think the fish were classified as killies in the old days but now, it's no longer so. I checked the AKA's official web site and the genus Oryzias isn't even there. But in their forum, they have a sub-forum for hobbyists to discuss about Medaka fish.

    [i]As to their care and breeding, I must say they are interesting subjects for breeding purposes. KL, perhaps you could distribute these Oryzias dancena? when their numbers boom the next time round :wink:
    I'm trying to breed as many as I can because I'm thinking of giving them a planted tank all on their own. The fish may not be very beautiful but they shoal and under our aquarium lights, their eyes shine. They are much more beautiful than Lampeyes. When I have enough juveniles, I will pass them around to those who are interested in breeding them. I can't give out the fish now as the fry are still too young to be sexed. When it's time, you will be the first to get some, Jianyang.

    Loh K L

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    KL, your forum seem to be more fish-savvy than AQ. perhaps you need to rename it killiesNothers.com

    Anyway it shouldn't be O. latipes as the range of this species is Mekong and eastwards. One of the link I posted shows a map of south and east Asia with the various species ranges. This is not surprising as many other fishes shows the same east/west limitation of range (and also Indochina/Sunda distinction for that matter, look at the four species of Trigonostigma, and the 5 species of Boraras).

    You really should READ THIS where it also claims that the family of medaka and allies (Adrianichthyids) originated on the island of Sulawesi !! fancy.

    Here's an excellent picture to show how the species ranges across south, south-east and east Asia. Notice Sulawesi in green. The white line is the Wallace Line.




    Back to the Oryzias, I looked at my four specimens, only one shows the ragged anal fin (as in my pic), the other three look like yours and even has a faint colour fringe. Based on Roberts' figures, I am suspecting that the male has a ragged extension to the anal fin whereas the females have nice trimmed fins. Can you check your population and see? It is very hard to tell when they're swimming all over, I only notice it because of the picture.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwchoy
    KL, your forum seem to be more fish-savvy than AQ. perhaps you need to rename it killiesNothers.com
    Although this forum is for killies, we usually won't stop discussions relating to other fish. After all, killifish people are fish lovers too. I wouldn't want to change the name because it was such a stroke of good fortune that "killies.com" which is such a appropiate name for a killifish website was still available when I wanted to register a domain name.

    The guys here are knowledgeable about fish because they are serious hobbyists. I like to think that the culture here is such that serious hobbyists will find this forum a good place to hang around. Over here, we don't have people posting frivolous questions like "where to buy the cheapest fish/plant/equipment/whatever".

    Back to the Oryzias, I looked at my four specimens, only one shows the ragged anal fin (as in my pic), the other three look like yours and even has a faint colour fringe.
    Choy, I wonder if you can do a big favour for me. I don't want to disclose the reason now but it's very important to me that I see pictures of your other Medaka, the ones you said have no ragged anal fins. Can you take their pictures and post them on this forum? Please...........thank you.

    Loh K L

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    your wishes are my commands

    btw, I just looked at the fellow with the "ragged" fins, it now has a slight colour fringe on the anal fin, it doesn't look "ragged" any more but rather just jaggered.



    (bigger pic)
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Quote Originally Posted by timebomb
    Choy,

    … I admire your photography skills and …

    Loh K L
    BTW don't say this *looks around* my sifu is around here
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwchoy
    BTW don't say this *looks around* my sifu is around here
    *looks around* and wonder who that may be?
    Choy, welcome onboard. I'm a 'visual person' and appreciate nice pics when I see one.

    I'm impressed by the details from the 1st pic, where the translucency and pigments on the scales shows up very well. Are you using a photo tank as well? What's your rig? I'm saving up, albeit slowly, for a digi SLR and am inclined towards Canon as I've a few of their tele lens. Would consider a decent macro, to get those pics I'm looking at.

    Kwek Leong, I shot a couple of pics of your medeka but I'm afraid this is the nicest of the lot.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonWill

    I'm impressed by the details from the 1st pic, where the translucency and pigments on the scales shows up very well. Are you using a photo tank as well? What's your rig? I'm saving up, albeit slowly, for a digi SLR and am inclined towards Canon as I've a few of their tele lens. Would consider a decent macro, to get those pics I'm looking at.
    Hi, thanx much for the compliment. A lot of luck and cooperation from the subject is also required

    I do have some small tanks meant to be photo tanks, but they're currently reserved for the more difficult fishes. For the pics in this thread, they're all taken in my main (and only one of two) tank which is about 3ft long. The problem with this tank is the lack of tall background plants as it is a hairgrass tank, and very overcrowded.

    My rig is a Canon G5 with +4+1 close-up (Hoya) with a SpeedLite 550EX on wireless off the shoe. Mostly the flash is on a tripod about 2-ft behind and off to one-side of the cam, and sometimes I put it over the tank for top-down illumination.

    Ideally I will add another SpeedLite 420EX to the wireless rig, to get top and front illumination. The wireless flash trasmitter is mounted on the camera hot-shoe.

    I shoot in RAW as the G5 is somewhat noisy and suffers chromatic aberration under harsh lighting conditions. I use full manual to eliminate shutter lag and usually at smallest aperture ( F8 ). The availability of flash allows fast shutter speeds even at minimum aperture, usually I use 1/100.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Choy,

    Thanks for showing me the pics of your other Medaka. I really appreciate it very much. Now that I have seen your other fish, I can confirm that ragged or trimmed anal fins are not an indication of sex. Neither is it an indication of species.

    Some of the Medaka in my tanks have ragged anal fins while others have anal fins with smooth edges. I have 11 Medaka and the ratio of fish with ragged anal fins to those with smooth ones are about 50, 50. Some males have ragged edges while others have smooth ones. Same goes for the females.

    The guy in India who caught the fish with Madan said he found the species name by checking the same web sites that Choy pointed out. So until someone comes up with better information, I would go along with Choy and call the fish Oryzias dancena.

    Thanks for all the help, Choy. You really did some good investigative work there.

    Loh K L

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    KL, thanx for the great info (about sex and the finnage). because of that I have decided not to insert the gender indicator in the species annotation. I have updated the pics with the final form (those that will go into hexazona archive) and also reduced to 640×480 for the dial-up folks.

    two favours: can I have your pic with the dangling eggs to be entered into the hexazona archive, and will you ask Madan or the other folks for a locality name where they collected the fish? In my pics I always either indicate the type locality or (if known) the collecting locality.

    thanx and it was so fun to learn about the big O. :wink:
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Hi,

    The fish with the ragged anal fin is probably Oryzias melanostigma, a very common species in Thailand brackish water. The one with heavily fringed fin are male, those with plainly fin are mostly female.

    Btw, from the chart, from my personal experience I don't think O. meakongensis is smaller than O. minutillus. I have seen both in real life. O. minutilus is also a very common species in Bangkok area. You can catch them in 100 in one scoop in a good location.

    Oryzias sp. are no longer Killifish due to their eggs structure or something like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonn
    Hi,

    The fish with the ragged anal fin is probably Oryzias melanostigma, a very common species in Thailand brackish water. The one with heavily fringed fin are male, those with plainly fin are mostly female.

    Btw, from the chart, from my personal experience I don't think O. meakongensis is smaller than O. minutillus. I have seen both in real life. O. minutilus is also a very common species in Bangkok area. You can catch them in 100 in one scoop in a good location.

    Oryzias sp. are no longer Killifish due to their eggs structure or something like that.
    Nonn, I am very pleased to make your aquaintance having followed your escapades (at least those in English!) to the Thai biotopes. You must translate more of your articles in English for our benefit.

    As regards O. melanostigma, this is no longer a valid name but according to a reference in www.killi.net it is renamed "Oryzias melanostigma → Oryzias carnaticus".

    Perhaps you can bring KL to go scoop some of these wild Oryzias in Thailand so we can compared them to those brought from India.

    As for our current specimens, they could be O. dancena or O. carnaticus (given the Indian collecting location), mmm… not very satisfactory state of affairs at all

    Timebomb, your challenge while in BKK, bring back some O. minutillus and O. mekongensis ! :wink:
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwchoy
    two favours: can I have your pic with the dangling eggs to be entered into the hexazona archive, and will you ask Madan or the other folks for a locality name where they collected the fish?
    Choy,

    Feel free to use any of my pictures. Adip who caught the fish with Madan said they were collected from Cauvery River. I really have no idea where that is but there's a picture of the river in the gallery pages of:

    http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/index.php

    Loh K L

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