Keeping ANNs (was Re : WTB: Pseudepiplatys annulatus)

[whuntley]

Hi Garrett and Ron,

Hi Garrett, before you 'get hold' of the annulatus, how prepared are you to care for them?

If you think you've done your 'homework', meet me tomorrow and you might walk away with a juvenile pair of home-raised ANNs.

Interested? :wink:

My US$0.02... [I like ANN a lot!]

ANN are easier than many folk think. You can't pick and handle the eggs, like many killies, as that usually kills them, IMHO. They won't take bbs when hatched, so you need to know how to provide a combination of healthy microfoods and hiding cover.

The parents ignore new hatchlings, but juveniles are predatory, so you need to pull new babies soon before they grow up enough to eat little sister.

I have had good production with a 10G tank with several pairs in soft, acid water. Fibrous peat substrate and floating water sprite give spawning medium and hiding space. Java moss added structure. Lots of plants host lots of rotifers, etc. so the early food becomes automatic in a tank that big. I like to add a squirt of "green water" (Euglena sp.) to be sure they are fed well. APR would also be good in very tiny amounts

The babies have a bright reflective "headlight" above the eyes, so are easy to see from above and scoop out with a chinese takeaway spoon. They are so tiny they are hard to see from the side, and they hide way up in the meniscus.

Good luck, Garrett,

Wright

[stormhawk]

Garrett, I've seen the tiny fry before when I helped Ron "harvest" his fry from his breeding container. Very prolific indeed and yes the juveniles are predatory towards smaller ones. You need only a "working" pair from Ron and off you are to a flying start with these gems. :wink:

[moss_fanatic]

Hi Wright
Thanks alot for you US$0.02 (which I think it costs more than that to me ). For my tank setup, I have already added quite a lot of Java Moss in it. I guess thats gonna help in providing those micro-organism for feeding fries.
Hi Jianyang,
I will take note of that.
Thanks for helping me out!

[whuntley]

Hi Wright
Thanks alot for you US$0.02 (which I think it costs more than that to me ). For my tank setup, I have already added quite a lot of Java Moss in it. I guess thats gonna help in providing those micro-organism for feeding fries.
Hi Jianyang,
I will take note of that.
Thanks for helping me out!

Garrett,

Yep. The Java Moss is great for that.

Don't forget some floating plants, as the babies are surface fish and need upper hiding spots. The dangling roots of Water Sprite make an excellent substitute for the mops that killies expect to have for spawning places, too.

Actually, they spawn anywhere, and the Germans hang fibrous peat from the tank edge for them. I think they even spawned in it on the bottom of my tanks.

Wright

[moss_fanatic]

Hi Wright,
I would take note of adding floating plants too. Besides Water Sprite, are there any other floating plants advisable for putting into the tank of ANN? I wonder if Water Sprite is available in our LFS.

[RonWill]

ANN are easier than many folk think. You can't pick and handle the eggs, like many killies, as that usually kills them

Wright, the ANNs is also one of my favourite killie and while they're not difficult to breed, it's the handling of the young fry that isn't easy (if one is not prepared).

Have never gotten any to hatch from picked eggs, but when left undisturbed in the spawning tank and with an adequate supply of micro-sized foods, the hobbyists should do just fine.

...and yes, both on and off forum, I've advised potential breeders that the 'din-din' rule applies :wink:

APR would also be good in very tiny amounts

It seems that the local OSI distributor will not be stocking APR. I'll need to work something out with the rest here and liaise with you.

easy to see from above and scoop out with a chinese takeaway spoon.

Did you manage to get hold of some from Brian Perkins or Edd Kray? If you guys need more, just let me know.

Garrett, in lieu of 'Water Sprite' (Ceratopteris thalictroides), other floaters like Limnobium laevigatum (frogbits), Pistia stratiotes & Salvinia natans serve the same purpose.

[timebomb]

Garrett,

Here's a page where you can see some of the floating plants we often use in our Killie tanks. These are usually very easy to grow plants. They're idiot-proof .

Loh K L

[moss_fanatic]

Hi Ronnie,
The ANN are adapting quite well to the breeding tank. Once I added them to my breeding tank, they checked out their surroundings and they seemed to love the Java Moss. However, when I fed them live tubifex this morning, I noticed that they won't eat. May I know what sort of food you are feeding them because I don't want to stress them too much now.

Hi Loh K L,
Thanks for that information. I think what Ronnie has gave me is enough for my breeding tank.

Thanks alot

[whuntley]

Hi Ronnie,
The ANN are adapting quite well to the breeding tank. Once I added them to my breeding tank, they checked out their surroundings and they seemed to love the Java Moss. However, when I fed them live tubifex this morning, I noticed that they won't eat. May I know what sort of food you are feeding them because I don't want to stress them too much now.

Mine always got mostly bbs and some baby daphnia and very juvenile Grindals. They don't eat any larger worms, AFAIK. They will eat a bit of high-grade brine-shrimp flakes.

Wingless fruit flys were eagerly taken, as I recall. Still, newly hatched brine shrimp were their main diet.

Floating a mosquito egg raft in their tank can give them some variety. [You'll have to net out any wrigglers that escape and get too big, tho.]

Wright

[stormhawk]

Garrett, for starters, they're surface feeders that normally prefer insects that have landed on the water surface. I have kept ANN before and none of them would eat a sinking tubifex. they would however try their best to chase and eat the worm but would not leave the surface region in pursuit of the worm. I would suggest that you get a worm feeder and place it in the tank. just drop in some worms and leave them to their job. they should be feeding pretty quickly. alternatively, try to collect some small ants and drop them on the water surface. pretty easy to collect since they're attracted to sugar. these small-mouth surface feeders absolutely love insects.

another alternative would be - keep the water level low. that will prompt the ANN to go abit deeper in search of food. may just prompt them to feed on the tubifex worm at the bottom of the tank. either that or you better get some scavengers, maybe some dwarf corys or you'll have a tubifex colony in the tank!. :wink:

[moss_fanatic]

Hi Wright,
Haha, almost all of your suggested food cannot be found in Singapore. Only BBS. Anyway, thanks for you suggestion though. If I come across any of these cultures I will be sure to grab one . As for BBS, how much do you guys usually squirt?( I am currently using a 5ml syringe to squirt BBS for my fishes, those kind where doctors usually do injection on a patient)

[RonWill]

However, when I fed them live tubifex this morning, I noticed that they won't eat. May I know what sort of food you are feeding them because I don't want to stress them too much now.

Garrett, the ANNs diet should be varied with BBS, daphnia, grindal, tubifex and fruitflies.

To slow down the 'drop-rate' of tubifex, stuff some java moss in the worm-feeder and the ANNs will hang around waiting for the worm to crawl through.

Fruit flies are a treat and can be easily caught with a fly-trap. If you're culturing vestigial Drosophila, a trap won't be necessary.

Although daphnia are not readily available, there are still some LFS that get their stock from Malaysia and if you say, "almost all of your suggested food cannot be found in Singapore", then you haven't been looking hard enough or reading the forum closely. For grindal worms, try this and this.

Unless the water column is shallow, ANNs seldom venture to the lower part of the tank. To prevent unseen/uneaten food from fouling the water, feed sparingly and employ bottom scavengers like pygmy corys and ramhorn snails.

BTW, I thought you should know that the floaters are called Limnobium laevigatum, or commonly known as 'Frogbits'.

[moss_fanatic]

Hi Ronnie,
I am feeding the ANN with BBS and tubifex worms on alternating days. As for the fly trap, I am still negotiating with my parents to whether I should construct it as I am wondering if the fly trap would stink.( My mum is complaining that the tubifex worms are already stinking so adding another fly trap would be a hazard to my house ).
As for grindal worms, I have yet to find a LFS which sells this and I believe getting these starter cultures would be tough.
As for the ANN, I observed them to be swimming around the middle area more towards the bottom, so I was wondering the Frogbits were obstructing their path or not?

[PohSan]

Hi Garrett,
I don't think that you can find grindal worm culture from any of the LFS. I have two cultures at the moment so I can give you one.

Regards,
Ong Poh San

[moss_fanatic]

Hi Pohsan,
Thanks for your offer but I got to research more into culturing grindal worms first before accepting your culture or else I would be sure I am going to ruin them all.
Anyway, does anyone know if is it possible I keep cherry shrimps with my ANN? I was thinking that the ANN would munch them off.