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Thread: Houston!... I have a problem!

  1. #1

    Houston!... I have a problem!

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    Hi all !

    I discover i have 'worms' , moving under the driftwood of my erected moss.

    They are very flat (not cylindrical long wiggling worms) - look and move a like leeches. They sometime curl themselve into a round pancake shape. All together i extracted 9 of them , size ranging from 2mm to 6mm.

    i took the whole driftwood out and soak in water added with moderated algae-removing-liquid. These worm drop down from the driftwood after slight shaking but are never killed.

    i isolate them with hungry tetra and shrimps (yamato and cherry) but they ignore the 9 worms.

    Currently, i bury them under soil-gravel in a small cup and see if they survive inside which could mean 'bad' , or do they move to surface of the soil-gravel looking for driftwood.

    Anybody have any idea what are these aliens ? For your information the driftwood with moss are brought from the popular clementi aquarium shop , 2 weeks ago. So your may also be interested.


    OK, another topics.

    My christmas moss have lots of brown spots overnight (real suddenly). Each fine-leaves have 2 to 5 brown spots. they are located at middle section and are closely pack together . So a 3 cm triangle mose add up to 25 -35 brown spots.

    They are too tiny to know exactly what they are but doesn't look like decays (brown decay start from the stems outward till it reaches the tips of each fine leaf) , it looks like brown eggs on those fine green leaf . but i cannot scratch them off the leave.

    It is puzzling ! I was worried it's the egg of those worms. Eeer...!

    My tank only have tetra, shrimps,sae. I am not desperate to save my moss, i can see that they are not doing well in my tank , opposite to other plants which are happily pearling (photosynthesis).

    Just like to hear your experience/advice/idea on what these weird things going .

    Thank you.



    ----------------------
    Kok Yong

  2. #2
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    the brown spots are probably the rhizoid or roots. where are they located?
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

  3. #3
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    The worms might be Planaria (aka flatworms). Look for a faintly diamond shaped head when they are stretched out with two crossed "eyes" looking straight up.

    If so, they are generally harmless. Only a few Gouramis eat them, AFAIK. Keep out of any breeding tank as they do love to eat killifish eggs! You can kill them easily with any anti-helminthic (de-wormer medicines like Fluke Tabs or flubendazole).

    Lots of info is on the web about them. Try:

    http://www.ebiomedia.com/gall/classi.../planaria.html

    Wright
    01 760 872-3995
    805 Valley West Circle
    Bishop, CA 93514 USA

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    Kok Yong, I used to have those flatworm-like worms in my tanks. Not planarians, very narrow in body size but sure as hell moves like a flatworm. They appear when you overfeed in the tank. If I'm not wrong young platy fry may eat them. For now I suggest that you remove them manually.

    If they're really flatworms like Wright has mentioned then you have a major problem. Not many fish will eat these. Drugs like flubendazole which Wright has also mentioned can kill most of these unwanted invertebrates but it will also kill most of the snails and ALL of your shrimp in the tank. Seems to have an adverse reaction on most invertebrates. If its possible try to take a close-up pic of the worms and we'll see what we can do.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

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    Kok Yong,

    I think your X'mas Moss are having spores capsules. See KL's tank:

  6. #6
    Hi Wright, Jianyang,

    Yes, they are flatworms. The websites (given by Wright) have their worm's picture (Perfect match). Actually their 'sting-ray' eyes cannot be seen in naked eyes as they are too small.

    Ok i will deworm, if their population explode in my tank. Anyway i will keep those caught for a while - to play around.


    Hi Freddy, Heng Wah,

    Those brown spot aren't spore capsule as in the picture. I cannot confirm it is rhizoid or roots find no rhizoid's picture to compare with.

    let me go find a digital camera to take it's picture. I believe it is a piece of cake if your see the brow spot picture. Location ,they are side by side in a line (3-5 spot ) at the


    I
    I
    III
    IIIII
    I0III0I
    I0IIIII0I
    I00IIIIIIII00I
    I00IIIIIIII00I
    I00IIIIIIIIIIIII00I
    I00IIIIIIIIIIIIII00II
    I00IIIIIIIIIIIIII00II

    DOS picture of chrismas leafs with spot (represented by 'O').
    (Just try don't know can work or not)


    -------
    Kok Yong

  7. #7
    Oh, something wrong with dos picture the stem are not aline.

    stem represented by 'I'. But they are at the tip end of leafs

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    Kok Yong, there's some reformatting upon submitting the posting.

    Guys, to see his ASCII pic with stem aligned, press the 'Quote' button (as if to reply).
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by stormhawk
    Drugs like flubendazole which Wright has also mentioned can kill most of these unwanted invertebrates but it will also kill most of the snails and ALL of your shrimp in the tank.
    Not true. Flubendazole or Flubenol 5% is shrimp safe even in higher dosage, unless your experience differs.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    I can't see Kok Yong's pics even when I clicked on the "quote" button. But Kok Yong can compared his pics with those in this thread to see if the brown spots he described are sex organs or rhizoids.

    Loh K L

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    Ron, then I must have been sleeping. Kok Yong, just bomb the tank with flubendazole as recommended. It should eradicate the flatworm problem.

    As to how they got there in the first place, sometimes they come in with the plants you buy from the shop or in those pre-tied java fern on driftwood. I saw plenty of those while I was catching some fat pregnant bee shrimps earlier today.

    OffTopic:
    Just for fun, take one of the flatworms and slice it in the middle. If I'm not wrong they should split into TWO different individuals. That is, if I read this info correctly. :wink:
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

  12. #12
    Hi all ,

    Just saw the message thread ( by Loh KL) and the picture of Rhizoid.

    Positive match ! These are rhizoid.

    The rhizoid on my christmas moss are just 2 days old , maybe thats why they appear as brown spots and not brown hair. (i.e. 'too young to have hair... there' )

    Also right that erect moss don't have rhizoid , christmas moss have . Because my erected and christmas moss are side by side together. christmas leafs are mop by rhizoid but not erected moss .

    The thread didn't mention how to stop rhiziod. i just try to do a guess base on my unfortunate experience.

    Ok, My christmas moss's leafs extend out from it's very-low driftwood until they all were sitting/flat on my soil-gravel , these may the the reason rhizoid is produced - to grip on the ground and continue to grow.
    The reason i let them be on the gravel for it to go long,long so as to tie to a bigger driftwood next time.

    If this guesswork is correct leaf that are 'flying' should not produce rhizoid. That is why some chrismas moss don't experience such problem.

    Again, previous three paragraph are just my personal guess.


    Ron, yesterday i just bomb my tank with algae remover thinking that the rhizoid are algae. Today my SAE(one and only) and 2 cherry shrimps was found RIP. Not bombing in the near future.


    "Excellent Job! Houston.... "
    "Over and Out ."


    -------------------------
    Kok Yong

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    Quote Originally Posted by stormhawk
    Just for fun, take one of the flatworms and slice it in the middle. If I'm not wrong they should split into TWO different individuals. That is, if I read this info correctly. :wink:
    .. I used to 'kill' them by slicing them into 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silvertetra
    The thread didn't mention how to stop rhiziod. i just try to do a guess base on my unfortunate experience.
    Kok Yong,

    We didn't talk about removing the rhizoids because there's no reason to do that. Rhizoids are roots. Why would you want to have them removed?

    Loh K L

  15. #15
    Hi all,

    First of all i would like to retract that "erected moss doesn't have rhiziod".

    I discover they do have but unlike christmas moss they are much much lesser rhiziod. I saw them on my bunch of erected moss after a close look .

    And also very interestingly the grown-position of the rhiziod is different from the erected and christmas ( very obvious by comparing a lots of fronds of both moss).

    Previously, i have draw a DOS picture of the rhiziod on christmas moss. Below is the picture of rhiziod on my erected moss. Ok, if your are interested, you are welcome to see my mosses .

    I
    I
    0
    I0I
    II0II
    IIIIIII
    IIIIIIIII
    IIIIIIIIIIIIII
    IIIIIIIIIIIIII
    IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
    IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
    IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII


    again, '0' is the rhiziod . The number of rhiziod is like 5. compare to 25-35 for christmas moss.

    I hope this doesn't complicate things. What i observe i record it accoordingly.


    Hi Mr Loh,

    I understand now that rhiziod are some kind of healthy behaviour or a part of the mosses. But i have to say they are a bit irritating to look. A rhiziodless frond is a 'prefect' frond. Do share with us if you have experience to reduce them.

    Thank you.


    -------------

    Kok Yong

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