Not that I've an infestation of these dreaded BGA at hand, but I have spots of them on the glass, just above the gravel level. They appear at areas with little or lack of circulation (thick tennellus growth), and those areas which is exposed to diffuse sunlight.
At the present moment, manual removal is what I'm adopting now, scraping them off and sucking them out with a pipette. They're rather slow growing, and it'd take them about a week before the spots can reach abt 1cm in diameter. However, I usually remove them at a 2-4 day interval, as soon as they can be seen. Once in a while, they get to the base of a tennellus, which I promptly remove by cutting the plant away.
The plants are growing very well now, and nutrient level in the water column is in good working range ( CO2 abt 45-50ppm, NPK is 12.5-20ppm, 1ppm and 20ppm respectively, Mg at 5ppm, a good trace supplement from Seachem Flourish Trace and iron). Even the occasional spots of BBA on rotting foliage are also dying.
Yesterday, I dropped a tiny piece of gravel with BGA while trying to syphon them out, and I quickly cover the area with a new layer of gravel, worried that it might take off from there. Urgh!!! I hate this paranoid and jittery state that I'm in right now!
Ok, let's take poll here, who's in favour of treating the tank with a blackout right now, or shall I persevere with what I'm doing now and hope that something good will prevail?
I think I'm going to go out there and buy some black tape and tape out the areas where theres's incidental diffuse sunlight for now....
Cheers,
Kenny
Kenny, I'm curious, what does BBA taste like?At the present moment, manual removal is what I'm adopting now, scraping them off and sucking them out with a pipette.I would go with the 3-4
days' blackout. You will want to go into a period of fasting and prayers during this time to cover all bases
Out, out, black spot!
BGA as I knew is a form of bacteria. You may wish to consider killing them with anti-biotic. I was told by a hobby friend, Dennis, that BGA favours oxygen rich water. And unbalance nutrient which weaken the plants would help BGA to flourish too.
Sorry Kenny, can't read! BGA likes anaerobic conditions, it is cyanobacteria
which would preclude a fondness for oxygen-rich water. The blackout for
3-4 days is still suggested.
I always find thekrib good as it always have what we looking up for.
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/...acteria.html#5
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/...cteria.html#14
Freddy, some where in the above message it mention that BGA occurs when it has low oxygen.
Best Regards
Thanks guys,
Yeah, they always responded well to antibiotics....I'd just thought that it may not be the politically correct thing to say, as I'm never one who would encourage hobbyists to use, unless they're experienced enough, don't want to end up with resistant strains of them.
The BGA spots came during a time when the tank was neglected ie. low nutrient levels in the water column. I realised that they're not going to go away that easily, even though the nutrient deficiency is rectified and plants are doing extremely well now.
The tank should be oxygen rich, as the oxygen pearling can be seen less then half an hour after lights on. No kidding, Rashid had witnessed that, right Rashid?
Well, I thought it would be ridiculous to just dose erythromycin in for just a few recalcitrant areas of the tank, and that they've not infested the plants yet.
I've not given blackouts a try before, but I know Tom Barr swears by it. Anyone here gave that a try before, your testimony? However, just in case, I'm standing by erythromycin....
Cheers,
Kenny
Kenny, my experience with BGA was from a compacted substrate that
eventually showed blisters of viscous dark blue-green algae. The water
column can have all the oxygenated water in the world and still have a
healthy breeding colony of BGA in a substrate that is starving for oxygen. With the type of filters I use in most tanks I have no BGA but highly oxygenated water. Your CO2 levels should have driven off the BGA--if your substrate was healthy. A blackout, erythromycin, will be temporaray fixes if the underlying cause is not addressed. How I cured my 2 tanks of this condition was to break them down, cleaning thoroughly, throwing out the infected plants, and laid in entirely new (more porous) substrate.
As always, YMMV
Also, Kenny, are you using a canister filter? You might create more current moving across the substrate by lowering your spraybar or perhaps
adding a small water pump a couple inches of above the substrate on the
back wall of the tank. This of course, is if your substrate is ok to begin with.
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the advise!
Well, I should think that the substrate is ok to begin with, there's no BGA in them. The BGA spots are located along the length of the 4 fter, just above the gravel level.
Well, I think you're right about the circulation thingy, as those areas seems to be dead spaces which had been piled on by layer upon layer of tenellus, with a fair bit of detritus which I try to syphon out duing my weekly water change.
Hmm...maybe I'd try getting in a powerhead there....
Cheers,
Kenny
Kenny, I'd prune the tenellus back from the glass if it's touching. A good
50% or more water change, getting all the BGA you can see, resetting
your nutrients should do it without going through a blackout period. Yours
is no where the severity of the plague I had in my tanks. You're running
3-4 watts per gallon lighting, right? CO2 is working great with the pearling
on the plants......adding perhaps a little more current at lower levels of
the tank should do you just fine.
kenny,
afaik the only way to treat bga is by using antibiotics. i had bga in my tanks on and off for a couple of months. i tried the black-out method and it still cam back : change water every other day and suck out the bga and it still came back.
i tried every thing mentioned in the web but it still came back. i chanced to talk to a friend who told me that bga is a bacteria and needs to be treated with antibiotics and reccomended that i use erythromycin and after administering this antibiotics for three days in a row wala ! no more bga .
i can assure you that your plants/fish will not suffer any ill effects from this medication.
wish you will give it a try and let me know your results.however you may need a doctor's prescription to buy the antibiotics in spore
dennis
Dennis,
Your advice for Kenny was irresponsible, IMHO.
Why?
You have no idea what pathogenic organisms were in that tank that you treated for only 3 days. Since that is barely enough time to kill even the more susceptible members of many genera, it surely left behind a nice collection of those individual bugs most resistant to erythromycin. IT ISN'T THE BGA THAT BECOMES IMMUNE!
You may have killed all of the BGA (not likely, BTW), but what about the Pseudomonas and Staph and Strep that are often present in aquarium water? Unless you have complete knowledge of what is in the water, don't even think of using an antibiotic useful for treating human diseases. If you do have the knowledge, then treat long enough to fully kill all the potentially harmful organisms, and not just to reduce the BGA. [That full treatment is often 10 days to 2 weeks at full strength.]
Once you have treated BGA as you advise, you have done absolutely nothing to correct the nutrient imbalance that allowed the outbreak in the first place. Invariably, it comes back and often much worse than the first time.
Sorry if I come off sounding like a crank on this subject. I feel individual responsibility and understanding a process are important in protecting all of us from "melting flesh" infections with no cure left. Prescription laws are not much good (often doing more harm). They were applied to erythromycin, just for the reasons I gave above. Your advice is why they fail.
Sermon Mode <OFF>
Wright
01 760 872-3995
805 Valley West Circle
Bishop, CA 93514 USA
Wright, I don't think Dennis was being irresponsible. Rather, it was through ignorance that he gave such advice. Honestly, I was just as ignorant too about the harmful effects of using Erythromycin and I used it in my tanks several times in the last few years. Thanks to people like you, though, I now know better.Originally Posted by whuntley
As before, we love reading your sermons. I'm sure Dennis feels the same way too.
Loh K L
wright,
antibiotics worked for meSorry if I come off sounding like a crank on this subject. I feel individual responsibility and understanding a process are important in protecting all of us from "melting flesh" infections with no cure left. Prescription laws are not much good (often doing more harm). They were applied to erythromycin, just for the reasons I gave above. Your advice is why they fail.
cheers
dennis
Hi Wright and Dennis,
Actually, I think that there's really no right and wrong in the decision whether to use erythromycin in treating BGA or not. I think that the decision has to be made based on an informed choice, and also on the basis that one knows its usage and consequence.
For me, I don't think I'll have a problem with using erythromycin. Haha, I prescribe them to patients everyday! However, I'd not encourage hobbysists to use them in their tank, as like what Wright says, if it is not use correctly and wisely, then there'll be likelyhood of having the development of resistant strains of bacteria.
The principle of antibiotics usage is that the dosage should be a deicisive one, a concentration that can kill most bacteria and not just maim them.
As 200mg per 50L of water, this should be sufficient, and yes, it should be repeated after a 4 day cycle. 2 courses should suffice. I've done this before, and for that tank, the BGA never come back until I tore down the tank 6 yrs later.
Cheers,
Kenny
Dennis, I think it wasn't whether it worked for you, but the point is using antibiotics carelessly can lead to bigger problems, not just for your fish or plants but for humans too. Please read this discussion to understand a little more.antibiotics worked for me
By the way, I respectfully request that you use the shift key in your keyboard to capitalise your sentences. We have a regular here who's partly dyslexic. Debra Bear is one of our greatest supporters so we don't want her to have difficulties reading the posts here. I hope you understand what we are trying to do in Killies.com. Thank you.
Loh K L
Talking about breeding resistant bacteria, mmm...that's something very close to my heart.
I'm allergic to penicillin and that basically wipes out a whole range of anti-botics which I can use when I fall sick. Erythomycin is a common anti-botic used as a substitute for penicillin in my case.
So, please, when you're using anti-biotics, spare a thought for people like me who're already short on options...
Cheers
Boon Yong
Hi guys,
I think we should not view each use of antibiotics as the surest way to create resistant strain, that each dose is a definite irresponsible act.
I'd think that the keyword words here should be 'responsible use' of antibiotics. This again, we can encourage, but it is definitely hard to ensure.
Many hobbyists have turned to me, asking me for prescription of medication for their fish or algae. What I've done is that, I'd suggest other alternatives which are less likely to create resistant strains of bacteria, failing which I'd administer for them. THe exception to this is when I know that the person is a serious hobbyist, and that he/she knows what he/she is doing.
Most medications would come with their own indications, contra-indications, side effects, adverse reactions and drug interactions. But that doesn't mean that we should avoid them totally, for if this is a case, then it would be a crime to consume them!
All medication, if they're used wisely and responsibly, would surely be useful and therapeutic in their own ways.
That said, I'd still want to give blackout a try, for once!
Cheers,
Kenny
Kenny, do the blackout to kill off the BGA as suggested and forget about the antibiotics. The blackout is "free" and it works for all types of algae except for BBA and perharps staghorn. Who would argue with "free" stuff?
Regards
Peter Gwee :wink:
Hi Peter,
Couldn't agree more with you!
I must thank you, for your numerous post have really gotten great impact on me. Your advocation of making plant healthy first has rubbed off a great deal on me and I must say that it works very well for me right now! No more new BBA growth, and the older ones are dying too! Greenspot is well within control, only on the ferns exposed to highlight. The front glass hasn't gotten a single greespot and have not been cleaned for more than a month!
As for BGA, well, they're just spots for now, and I think I may have been pre-emptive when I started this thread.
I'll go for the manual removal and improve circulation thing, failing which would be the balckout, and erythromycin as a last resort.
Cheers,
Kenny
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