Peat

[whuntley]

This is a subject of concern to all killifolk. For those who may have missed my posting to killietalk, earlier, here is the URL

http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/mo.../msg00171.html

Wright

PS. Yes, it is US-centric, but the topic is of universal concern, IMHO.

[ruyle]

Wright, when I read your post on KT, I found it both informative(always) and alarming! I've been soaking the Jiffy peat pellets in rainwater and not
boiling them! I used some of this water in a shoebox that had Apl SRP/03 fry where in 2 days went from a population of 15 down to 3 which are not growing out all that well. I've been beating my head against the wall for why they crashed The Jiffy 703(?) pellets I received when I first joined the hobby were Norwegian-made, or so I was told. I was informed
at the time they had the lowest content of fertilizer in them, rendering
them harmless to the fish! Now, they are also made in the US with a different number assigned to them, but are promised to be the same formula as the 703. I'm wondering if the Norwegian-made pellets had less
lime in them, than the US-made ones.

I've edited this post for the outburst. It's not Wright's fault that I am incurious and stupid not to investigate the contents of these pellets.

[whuntley]

Rainwater is too soft for peat and fish. You need some potassium, in case the peat releases any sodium, and you will probably see some ammonium if you want to test for it. A little Ca and Mg and HCO3 wouldn't hurt, either.

I never, ever, under any circumstances use pure rainwater, DI, distilled or even water from a good RO filter without adding back some essential electrolytes. I either dilute it with harder tap water, or add some "Equilibrium" and baking soda.

The reason is that lack of good buffering can run the pH high (lime will do it, easily) and cause ammonia burns. Any accidental introduction of sodium can be fatal without the other essential blood electrolytes. The peat can release sodium ions or feeding bbs can introduce them.

Don't waste that good soft water, just aerate to get rid of ammonia, dilute it with harder tap water, and move on. After this, I'd suggest you boil the pellets to make them safer. If you call the manufacturer, they will admit to the lime, but USDA doesn't mandate it on the label, so they just keep quiet, figuring correctly that it can only alarm gardeners. It really does prevent seedling damp off.

I don't think AUS (or most other killifish eggs) are very light sensitive. The velvet flagellates are able to photosynthesize and stay alive for several days, if there is very much light, so dark has something going for it. In darkness, they must find a host within 24 hours or they die, when in the free-swimming stage. Myths can come from strange indirect places, sometimes.

A bit under a tsp. of salt per G (and maybe a drop of acriflavin) can take care of them very nicely, so be sure you have the other electrolytes and then you can watch the eggs in normal light, AFAIK.

IDK why more folks don't spawn their AUS over peat.

BTW, they are an estuarine species and need a bit of salt in their not-too-soft water. Ever notice how folks in hard-water areas consider them a prolific beginner fish, and those with soft water find them so difficult?

Wright

Ps. Quit editing your posts after I have already answered them.

[ruyle]

Sorry, Wright, next time!
I did dilute the water with Huntspatch aged tapwater (GH 14) but maybe
not enough. My wife was helping me and had gotten peatwater from a
sweater box that was a few days old rather than the drums which were
aged for weeks. Even after the crash and she showed me what container
she'd gotten the water, I didn't blame that as the cause. I'm resigned to
start using breeding mops for the australe: permanent setups just don't
work for me like they do my chromos, which reward me with babies all the
time. I've heard of success stories where people can breed them in permanent setups, but obviously they are doing something different.

I would like to say again what a bounty you bring to the forum. I wish I
could print out your above post, but don't see a print button

[ruyle]

Silly me, I can click file then print!

[whuntley]

Sometimes fry die off for multiple causes.

For example, your sweaterbox might have had high ammonia and a high pH. Adding any tap water would push that process along by buffering pH high.

Now the babies get burned gills, and it only takes about 8 ppb to do that to most new babies. The lowest step on most ammonia test kits is 250 ppb, so you cannot see it unless the pH is low enough that the ratio of ammonium (ionized) to ammonia (unionized) is about 250/8 or 30:1. That is a pH of roughly 7.6 or so. Unless your water is below that pH, your ammonium test kit may be worthless at detecting quite harmful amounts of ammonia.

Now, along comes a "Velvet" flagellate of *Oodinium* or *Costia* and the damaged gills provide an easy point of attachment. The babies all die over a short time, without ever showing any external symptoms.

IME, the vast bulk of fish that die from Velvet o/e never show much external symptoms. You only learn this by long hours of peering through a microscope, doing a necropsy on every dead critter. [It is a PITA that most hobbyists gladly take a pass on.]

In some lighter-colored species, you can only see velvet on mature fish by looking at them head on in strong overhead light. That tends to make the dull finish on the skin (scales) more visible. In most cases the gills are already destroyed by the time they are at this stage and gasping at the surface.

If you want to do AUS in a natural tank, use your hard tap water, and provide a lot of cover for the babies. I would float some big water sprites and use fibrous peat (or monkey fur) as the substrate, but with wood and rocks for good hiding structure, too. You can put the monkey fur over gravel, if you want to plant rooted plants, but I prefer Java Moss for the lower plants in such setups, or potted plants.

[ruyle]

Thanks, Wright, I got another one to print out :wink: