A. amoenum Sakbeyeme

[RonWill]

I think the pictures will explain my rapture for them

Bill, looking at those beautiful 'Sakbayeme' makes me cry and you're gonna cry too if I tell ya that of the latest 12 fry transferred 040910, there's only one fry in left 'Grow-Out Tray (2)'.

The guys were over at my place last Saturday night and between Kwek Leong, Kho and Rashid, there were 8 eyeballs searching for fry. I cannot sensibly explain what's going on.

Azmi, from Eco-culture, was at my place last night and we're suspecting that the water works supplying to my mains, has either upped the chloramine or pumped up level of NEWwater.

Either way, I'm not taking any chances. Kwek Leong has collected Egg-Tray (4) and I hope he manages to hatch them out OK.

Recently, after water changes, I've been hit by casualties (much like what Lily has experienced and she's living near my district). About a week back, I lost 50+ 1cm N'sukka fry that were very stable and eating well.

How long does chloramine stay in the water and how does one effectively/safely convert/dissipate the chemical into a harmless compound?

Update as at Sep 13th;
Egg-Tray (1) 8/pkt - Found 6 eggs
090410 x 2 fry (KO'ed)
bal 3 eggs + 1 fungused, no fry.

Egg-Tray (2) 8/pkt - Found 7 eggs
040910 x 3 fry (KO'ed)
040913 x 1 fry
bal 3 eggs

Egg-Tray (3) 12/pkt - Found 13 eggs
040909 x 3 fry (KO'ed)
040910 x 7 fry (KO'ed)
bal 3 eggs

Live fry count = 2

Egg-Tray (4) 12/pkt - Found 12 eggs
No fry as yet
These are now in Kwek Leong's safe hands.

Bill, I'm gonna contact Edwin Hartle, relate the incident and see if I can purchase some eggs off him. Suggestions?

[whuntley]

Recently, after water changes, I've been hit by casualties (much like what Lily has experienced and she's living near my district). About a week back, I lost 50+ 1cm N'sukka fry that were very stable and eating well.

How long does chloramine stay in the water and how does one effectively/safely convert/dissipate the chemical into a harmless compound?

Five weeks is a typical chloramine half life. If you change water, it just never goes away. Period. [Aerated, chlorine goes in less than 24 hours, when not stabilized by ammonium. That made partial changes pretty safe with only chlorine in the water.]

"Amquel," "Ammo Lock 2," "Prime," and a host of other dechloraminators are available in the trade. Avoid "Amquel 2" and "Novaqua" as they are not the same thing.

Just don't use any product claiming to "break the ammonium-chlorine bond." It is just old photographer's hypo (sodium thiosulfate) hiding in an expensive bottle. [It is a couple of bucks a dry pound at the photo shop.] It releases a possibly lethal dose of ammonia unless your tank pH is fairly acidic.

The dechloraminators are fine for preparing shipping water, but that and neutralizing ammonium in incoming fish water (which is *always* discarded) are about the only times I use them. They are variations on formaldehyde, which is a tanning agent that kills smaller critters, like Daphnia and infusoria.

Slow carbon-block filtering is the best solution for breeders. Small fishrooms can use the taste and odor filters for refrigerator ice makers. In Fremont, when I had 150 tanks and containers to feed every day, I used two large (whole house) filters in series. [The water went through #1 and then through #2.]

Their output was trickled into a large food-grade trash barrel with a float valve to cut it off when nearly full. A small valve cut the average flow enough to be way slower that any level that tested for any chlorine in the outflow. Contact time is vital for safe chloramine removal. Chloramine and chlorine read exactly the same in the standard test kits.

I installed a secong drip-irrigation valve and a short piece of polyethylene tubing between the two filters so I could test there for possible "punch through" as the first cartridge started to saturate at about 6-9 months. When a trace of chlorine tested with a faint bit of yellow, I threw the saturated first cartridge away, and replaced it with the essentially unused #2. A new one went into the place of #2.

I cannot believe you guys have not religiously and regularly tested for chlorine! How do you tell if your dechloraminator or carbon filter are even working? How do you know the water dept. hasn't overdosed, today? I put it right up there with osmosis as an important thing for a breeder to be on top of.

If you buy at the swimming pool or spa places, the test is about 10-20 times cheaper than at the LFS, but it is exactly the same stuff. My last bout of this, the LFS got $10 for a chlorine test kit, and a bottle with over twice as much reagent was US$0.78 at the Home Depot spa department (without the color chart).

Spas, hot-tubs and swimming pools are natural bacteria culture media. You must have a source of chlorine test kits for them in SG. Look at the color chart that comes with them. It should be identical to the one at the fish shop. You don't need the chart, BTW, as any trace of yellowish color is BAAAAD! Be sure to view against a very white background so you can detect the slightest color tint.

Using carbon filtering instead of the formaldehyde-like stuff, my Java Moss teemed with rotifers and paramecia. One drop of Liquifry No. 1 was enough to create a swarming cloud by the next day. The babies love it and they aren't killed or stunted by either chlorine burns or ammonia.

Darn! Did I slip into Sermon Mode again? Sorry about that!

Wright

[whuntley]

I think the pictures will explain my rapture for them. When Chuck offered
these on Aquabid in 2002, I just had to have them!

Hey Bill,

Isn't this just another blue-body Aphyo with a bunch of red spots. I think I have seen a few of those, before.

Of course, I never could understand the wild bidding on jorgenscheeli either.

I think this is the emoticon you will be looking for.

Wright

[stormhawk]

I cannot believe you guys have not religiously and regularly tested for chlorine! How do you tell if your dechloraminator or carbon filter are even working? How do you know the water dept. hasn't overdosed, today? I put it right up there with osmosis as an important thing for a breeder to be on top of.

Wright, we very seldom test for chlorine or chloramine here in SG. Call it complacency but that's how it has been for years in the hobby here. I have no idea when the water company started using chloramine in the water supply but it has been blamed for all sorts of problems lately like mysterious fish deaths, shrimp fatalities and lots of others. Apparently in some areas they have indeed increased levels of chloramine but like you have said, the only way to know is to get a test kit.

How do you know the water dept. hasn't overdosed, today?

Very simply put, we don't. They don't inform us either and we know none the better. The pH and other readings have been fluctuating of late in many areas. I have no idea whether this is caused by the increased chloramine in the water or by the mixing of NEWater into the system.

I've had no deaths when I change water and the best indicators are my shrimps. They get pretty lively when I change water, without testing for chlorine OR chloramine. I know people may think that I'm mad just to rely on my fishes' activity levels to tell me that everything is OK but my otos aren't dying, my shrimps aren't dropping like flies and neither are my rasboras or corydoras dying for that matter.

Just last night, a few hours after the last water change, I found a clutch of eggs being guarded by my female Apistogramma trifasciata and my goodness was I shocked. Did not expect that to happen because the female was very shy during all the time prior to the water change. I have no idea what's wrong with the water supply at Ronnie's part of the island but we're just about 2 towns away by MRT so that makes me, part of the danger radius. I've had no problems of late but just to be sure, I'll go get myself a chlorine test kit. I have a feeling that it might be something to do with the pipes installed in Ronnie's block.

Ronnie, my suggestion would be to utilise the used mineral water barrels that you have at home. Those can easily hold quite a large amount of water. Drop in a few stockings filled with carbon and leave the barrels for several days. Get a test kit like Wright has mentioned and when the water's "sweet" for use, its time for a water change. Hopefully that will reduce your water quality-related casualties. :wink:

[whuntley]

Ronnie, my suggestion would be to utilise the used mineral water barrels that you have at home. Those can easily hold quite a large amount of water. Drop in a few stockings filled with carbon and leave the barrels for several days. Get a test kit like Wright has mentioned and when the water's "sweet" for use, its time for a water change. Hopefully that will reduce your water quality-related casualties. :wink:

Jianyang,

Not much chance if it is a chloramine problem. In-tank or cannister filters and charcoal in bags probably will not do a blessed thing to it. It needs the high-pressure (in-line) contact in a compressed carbon-powder block to have enough capture area and contact time to be effective. Chlorine, ammonium and chloramine are only weakly adsorbed by most activated carbon. You have to work at it (and test) to get rid of it.

Fish-shop activated (if it is) charcoal can barely remove dyes and other huge molecules, and usually is pretty worthless for serious filtering even with vigorous flow through it. In my experience it is mostly useful for dumping something lethal back into the water when you least want it to. :wink:

Wright

PS. In one of my few mistakes with the stuff, I found some Nothos to be the best "mine canarys." They conked before most other genera or even inverts, as I recall. It was a limited test, and years ago, so I could be mistaken on that.

[stormhawk]

In that case the best alternative would be to have separate tank for holding water and using a powerhead to circulate the water. Might help to dissipate the chloramine somewhat. (I may be wrong but some people do this when they have space for an extra empty tank just for holding water). Wright, with regards to fish shop carbon products, Eheim has a carbon pad, would that be good for usage in a canister filter? I've not used activated carbon for a long long time but there's products like the one from Seachem that's supposed to be a mix of activated carbon and some other stuff, probably zeolite. If these aren't useful in the home aquarium, what would you recommend? Locally the only sources of activated carbon are those commonly found in the LFSes.

[whuntley]

In that case the best alternative would be to have separate tank for holding water and using a powerhead to circulate the water. Might help to dissipate the chloramine somewhat. (I may be wrong but some people do this when they have space for an extra empty tank just for holding water). Wright, with regards to fish shop carbon products, Eheim has a carbon pad, would that be good for usage in a canister filter? I've not used activated carbon for a long long time but there's products like the one from Seachem that's supposed to be a mix of activated carbon and some other stuff, probably zeolite. If these aren't useful in the home aquarium, what would you recommend? Locally the only sources of activated carbon are those commonly found in the LFSes.

No! The alternative is to run the water one time through an in-line properly designed carbon block filter.

Don't even look for activated carbon as you do not have the tools to properly fabricate a working filter insert anyway. Look for the filter housing and its replaceable inserts. You find that at plumbing places and industrial suppliers, not at the LFS. Sometimes they are called carbon filters and sometimes they are "Taste and Odor" filters.

There are many filters made to go in the water line at any hardware store. Ask for what you want. It will not be a particle filter. It will be a taste and odor or chlorine-removing cartridge.

None of the LFS stuff is safe, IMHO. It is too prone to dump toxins back into the tank and not designed to ever remove chloramine, anyway.

Refrigerators with ice makers usually have an installation kit with a "taste and odor" filter. [Any big hardware store should carry the kits.] It is a small plastic cylinder about 2" diameter and 7" long with tubing compression fittings on both ends. When exhausted you take it out and throw the whole unit away. Replace with a new one.

I know of no cartridge that you can refill, yourself, with carbon. They are throwaway cylinders that go into a pressure cartridge holder for the larger kind. Typically, the filter insert is about 3" diameter by 9" long. and has a 1" hole trough the center.

Circulating the water with a powerhead would be pretty expensive, for less than half the chloramine would be gone after 5 weeks. It probably would be almost a year before you were down to a safe level.

As I said before and will repeat. The half-life of aerated and circulated chloramine is 5 weeks. After 5 weeks up to half will still be there. You seem to persist in thinking of chlorine which can be dissipated over night. Chloramine cannot. It is designed to be very persistent.

Wright

[TyroneGenade]

I cannot understand the logic ofor using chloramine at all. It is used because normal chlorine reacts with organics in the pipes to create possible carcinogens. Read the label on a bottle of chloramine and you will see "potential carcinogen". Never mind the fact that ingesting amonia in any form but amino-acid is not a good idea...

If you are feeling really paranoid (as you should with fry) then use the bottled mineral water. You may also want to go see http://www.djramsey.com/tropfish/homemade.htm on David Ramsay's site to see how to contruct a small filter for a fry tub. You can fill that with activated carbon too.

About red spotted blue fish, what makes amoenum so special is the brilliant yellow flash at the base of the tail. Chuck's picks do not do this any justice. you are better off getting Eberl et al's book on the cameronense-group.

tt4n

[timebomb]

Kwek Leong has collected Egg-Tray (4) and I hope he manages to hatch them out OK.

No fry yet but the eggs are looking good. I put in a few shrimps, some Java Moss and a bunch of Hornwort in the hatching tray. Will let you know as soon as there's fry.

Loh K L

[ruyle]

Gosh, guys, I don't know where to begin, I just got up an there's all these
posts!

Somewhere on another thread (we should have made it a separate one)
Wright outlines the construction of a carbon filter. This will be the FIRST
thing I make when I move to Thailand if they use chloramine! I hope
Wright is not a "Cassandra" in this and thoughts will be given to construct-
ing these.

Edwin uses straight R/O water to breed these fish! Gawd I was stupid not
to tell you guys. When I hatched mine out I used aged dechlorinated water
(no chloramine in my area) and filtered rainwater. Worked great.

Chuck's pictures may not be the best, but the ONLY ones that were forth-
coming after many searches and much appreciated!

Ronnie, let's wait and see how KL does with the eggs he has before talking
to Edwin. I think he is backed-up on some orders anyway. I am also gonna
try using mops (hate 'em) and see how it goes.

Wright, I know you have a great facination for blue fish with red spots!

Maybe we aren't in the hopper on this yet. If you get a pair, they should
breed like rabbits in the soft acid (dechloraminated) water in SG!

[stormhawk]

As I said before and will repeat. The half-life of aerated and circulated chloramine is 5 weeks. After 5 weeks up to half will still be there. You seem to persist in thinking of chlorine which can be dissipated over night. Chloramine cannot. It is designed to be very persistent.

Yes Wright I got your point, but I THOUGHT that a circulatory effect from a powerhead may help to dissipate the chloramine somewhat. I did mention that I MAY be wrong which I admit I am but there's really no need to go into sermon mode. There are times when it really grates, if you catch my drift.

I understand your reasoning for having in-line carbon block filters to help in removing the chloramine from the water but to find these 'taste and odour" filters can be quite a difficult task, not to mention costly for some people, myself included. Most people I know, don't own fridges that make iced water or whatever those contraptions are and my own fridge doesn't have this in-line whatchamacallit. I simply have no idea, let alone any knowledge of such a system. I believe many others are hearing this filter in the fridge thing for the first time as well so pardon the beginner in us.

I've seen such in-line tap-water filters for sale at a local LFS made by a US brand (should be Aquarium Pharmaceuticals). Whether it works or not I don't know and I won't try either. Like I've mentioned, I've not used activated carbon for a long long time and it doesn't look like I'll use it anytime soon either.

Bill, the water that runs fresh from our taps are usually alkaline in pH and moderately hard in nature. It's real easy to get soft acid water though. Those "sea almond" leaves come in handy in this aspect. If the amoenum are cool-water loving species like their cousins the cameronense then that might be another reason why Ronnie suffered some casualties. Cool-water killies don't do well in Singapore's tropical weather.

[whuntley]

As I said before and will repeat. The half-life of aerated and circulated chloramine is 5 weeks. After 5 weeks up to half will still be there. You seem to persist in thinking of chlorine which can be dissipated over night. Chloramine cannot. It is designed to be very persistent.

Yes Wright I got your point, but I THOUGHT that a circulatory effect from a powerhead may help to dissipate the chloramine somewhat. I did mention that I MAY be wrong which I admit I am but there's really no need to go into sermon mode. There are times when it really grates, if you catch my drift.

My sincere apology for the abrupt response. I wasn't peeved at you but had just spent over an hour doing a major history of the chlorine/chloramine/alkaline water-treatment stuff when my Netscrape crashed and wiped out all I had written. Please also note the late local hour. I was pretty tired, by then. I was, to say the least, utterly furious at my software, for it had done a similar thing earlier that evening. Grrrr!

[One thing I just hate about a forum on the web is the inability to periodically save work so a crash doesn't wipe it all out. Using a word processor and copy/paste seems unduly laborious. No? In both cases, I had actually finished writing and was about to "Preview" when the crash happened. I like to do final edit after a preview to catch stuff not obvious to the eye within the editor.]

The main point I'm trying to get across is that we absolutely must learn to deal with the changes in our water treatment systems. Chloramine cannot be reduced by any known dissipation system short of boiling (and even that is most uncertain). It must either be removed by line filtration (and never in a tank) or chemically bound up so the chlorine is neutralized and the plants can use the ammonium.

Failure to deal with chloramine will result in lots of fatalities, stunted babies, deformation, and a host of related fishkeeping problems such as increased incidence of diseases.

The very first, essential step is to test every bit of added water for chlorine. Many adult fish can tolerate about 0.5 ppm, but babies just cannot. They are damaged at virtually any detectable level.

Believe me when I say that you are right at the leading edge of a running catastrophe that we went through about 5-6 years ago in the US. I'd really like to save you guys some of the grief we suffered, through our ignorance at that time.

I'd still like to post a history of aquarium water treatment so folks can grasp the significance of where we are and where the hobby will go. Should I do it in this thread, or a completely different forum?

Again, I'm really sorry I let my temper get away from me. It is my very shortest thing, even more so than my memory (which is the second-shortest).

Wright

[stormhawk]

Wright, I think the discussion with regards to chloramine has gone way off topic this time. Ron has started a new thread regarding this and I think we should talk about this in that thread. Always good to learn something, minus the sermons. No offence there though.

With regards to the amoenum, it is a beautiful fish Bill. Not meant for a beginner like myself yet. But possibly in the near future. I think Chuck still has lots of beautiful fish. Bug him for a picture of Rivulus sp. "Paryagi". Those are stunners indeed. :wink:

Another question, this species is supposedly part of the cameronense-group. Are they cool-water species or just as difficult as the cameronense. Read that the cameronense is a difficult species from the West African Killie site by Tim Addis.

Wright, perhaps its time you tried Rivulus sp. Mahdia? :wink: A good alternative to CITES regulated SAAs and a colourful one at that! Was looking for R. lyricauda but it seems the only online source I've come across was a Scandinavian site.

[RonWill]

Bill,
Update as on Sep 14th 6pm;
Egg-Tray (1) 8/pkt - Found 6 eggs
090410 x 2 fry (KO'ed)
bal 3 eggs + 1 fungused, no fry.
090414 x 3 fry
zero egg balance

Egg-Tray (2) 8/pkt - Found 7 eggs
040910 x 3 fry (KO'ed)
040913 x 1 fry [in Grow-out Tray 2]
bal 3 eggs
040914 x 1 fry
bal 2 eggs

Egg-Tray (3) 12/pkt - Found 13 eggs
040909 x 3 fry (KO'ed)
040910 x 7 fry (KO'ed)
bal 3 eggs
040914 x 1 fry
bal 2 eggs

Live fry count = 6
[ 1 in Grow-out Tray 2]
[5 in Grow-out Tray 3]

We should be getting Kwek Leong's hatching update before Saturday.

Another question, this species is supposedly part of the cameronense-group. Are they cool-water species or just as difficult as the cameronense. Read that the cameronense is a difficult species from the West African Killie site by Tim Addis

Thanks for the tip, Jian Yang. I've gone through a few highs and lows, but this one takes the cake... losing 11 fry overnight. I went through Tim's site as you suggested and there's something here that Kwek Leong should take note as well.

At Tim's Aphyosemion cameronense page, under 'Breeding Notes', Rudiger Wagner observed, "The first egg hatched tail first but the fry died as it could not free itself of the shell. A pipette was used to place the eggs in & this was shaken from side to side to help free the fry".

Kwek Leong, I struggled with 3 such fry and when desperation got the better of me, I resorted to shaking these 'half-hatched' fry in a film canister. I reckoned that the fry will either suffer physical deformation or face certain death if left as is. Last I saw of these fry, their gills are moving but they just lie on the tray bottom.

Be prepared for the experience... you've been informed.

Bill, the latest batch of 5 fry went into a 3rd Grow-out tray with very aged and stable water from a Cryptocoryne tank. I'm hoping that the 3 shaken fry will recover but in case they have breathing difficulty, I placed a tablet of Oxytab (or oxygen tablet).

I read about their cool temp requirement a little late but I'll see if I can rig a DC fan to further cool down their water. Right now, I can only hope that the rest of the eggs will do ok.

Folks, is there any way I can reduce hatching trauma for the shell-bound fry?

[stormhawk]

I tried this rather risky method using a tweezer to help a struggling fry. Had one straggler in a batch of Simp. trilineatus eggs and it was the last and only struggling fry. What I did was to use a tweezer to maintain a grip on the loose bit of the eggshell and maintain that grip until the fry breaks free. By only keeping the grip on the loose part of the eggshell, the fry can struggle free of the eggshell without having to trash about with the eggshell still stuck around its head. After a few seconds of me helping out the fry with the tweezer, the little fella finally made it out. Bad news was, it had a slightly deformed head with one eye larger than the other as far as I could make it. That may have explained why it was struggling in the first place. The fry was a belly slider and did not survive the first 2 days of life.

This method is highly risky for those without steady hands or acute eyesight. The biggest danger for using this method is that one may accidentally place the grip on the struggling fry instead of the loose part of the eggshell, thereby killing the poor fry in the process. I would only recommend this method for those willing to take the risk of probably killing the fry with an inaccurate point of grip when using the tweezers.

[ruyle]

Bill, the latest batch of 5 fry went into a 3rd Grow-out tray with very aged and stable water from a Cryptocoryne tank. I'm hoping that the 3 shaken fry will recover but in case they have breathing difficulty, I placed a tablet of Oxytab (or oxygen tablet).

I read about their cool temp requirement a little late but I'll see if I can rig a DC fan to further cool down their water. Right now, I can only hope that the rest of the eggs will do ok.

Folks, is there any way I can reduce hatching trauma for the shell-bound fry?

Ronnie, what is the temp you are currently keeping them in? I got my eggs
from Chuck the first week of November 2002, if memory serves where
their hatchwater was between 22-24C. I had emptied the bag of peat with
eggs into 1 part aged tapwater to 2 parts filtered-thru-peat rainwater. There were several clumps of java moss in the shoebox as well. TDS was
was between 60-75ppm. I didn't do ph tests. I had 12-13 fry hatch out
and wound up with 8 teenagers, then 7 adults (one jumped out to oblivion
one night, don't know how) and now I have 2 adult pairs and 5 teenagers
growing out in a natural setup. I had 2 pairs before that sexed out that I
gave to a friend (now I wish I had sent them to Chuck!) I think low TDS
is key, perhaps low <7 ph, but definitely temps in the low-20s would be good. Chuck is the expert on these, I will contact him for more info.

At this time I would like to add my thanks to his allowing me to show pics
of these beautiful fish! The pictures are very realistic (no coloration enhancements) to what I see everyday in my tanks. The yellow shown in
the picture is the same: a dark mustard (honeymustard) yellow. I posted
these for the enjoyment of all, and not for critique.

[ruyle]

Ronnie, in a separate container, same size, try placing some crushed ice in the thickest walled glass you have (umm, not leaded glass) and place it by an airstone that is gently bubbling. Check for the rate of descent in temp, if too fast, too severe! But if it slowly cools throught the thick glass walls, it might help. Just trying to think of something to effectively lower your temp. I've had my adult fish up to 29-30C this summer during the
hottest period, but not steady throughout the day (turned on the air conditioner).

[RonWill]

Ronnie, what is the temp you are currently keeping them in?

Bill, I used two lab-grade alcohol thermos and both read 26·5 ºC, which should be reasonable, I think. A few days earlier, it was quite warm though.

I got my eggs from Chuck the first week of November 2002

Is Chuck still maintianing the 'Sakbayeme'?

...emptied the bag of peat with eggs into 1 part aged tapwater to 2 parts filtered-thru-peat rainwater. There were several clumps of java moss in the shoebox as well.

Will try this with the remaining eggs which have very developed iris and force-hatch if I have to.

Update as on Sep 15th 4am;
Egg-Tray (1) 8/pkt - Found 6 eggs
090410 x 2 fry (KO'ed)
bal 3 eggs + 1 fungused, no fry.
090414 x 3 fry (2 shaken fry KO'ed)
Zero egg balance

Egg-Tray (2) 8/pkt - Found 7 eggs
040910 x 3 fry (KO'ed)
040913 x 1 fry [in Grow-out Tray 2]
bal 3 eggs
040914 x 1 fry
bal 2 eggs

Egg-Tray (3) 12/pkt - Found 13 eggs
040909 x 3 fry (KO'ed)
040910 x 7 fry (KO'ed)
bal 3 eggs
040914 x 1 fry
bal 2 eggs

Live fry count = 4
[1 in Grow-out Tray 2]
[3 in Grow-out Tray 3]

I posted these for the enjoyment of all, and not for critique.

The images are lovely... even the Mrs approve of 'em :wink:

[ruyle]

Is Chuck still maintianing the 'Sakbayeme'?

Ronnie, on a recent trip to Peru, Chuck lost all his females! I was hoping
you guys might be able to spare a few females for him, but that doesn't
look like a realistic possibility now. I'm setting up a breeding tank with
mop today (have been conditioning a pair this last 6 days) and hope I
have success in picking some eggs for him.

The images are lovely... even the Mrs approve of 'em :wink:

On Chuck's behalf, thanks for the kind words! :wink:

[timebomb]

Hey, fellas,

Good news!! After reading Bill's post, I decided to add some cold water from my main tank into the hatching tray when I came home from work this afternoon. And about 2 hours ago, some of the eggs hatched. The fry seem to be quite weak though. They aren't free-swimming yet; they're just wriggling around on the bottom of the tray. Here's a pic of 2 fry:



Loh K L