My spawing Otocinclus affinis (perhaps O. vittatus?)

[RonWill]

He seems to of still had quite a sizable yolk sack. Maybe he broke free prematurely? A problem with temperature maybe?

Tyrone, I don't think it's temperature related as the hatching water was taken from the main system (which deliver water to the hatchery). It might be a question of oxygen since the single fry was isolated to a plastic petri-dish for observation.

Hope you deliver some good news soon about the rest of the fry!

Knock and the door shall be opened. Ask and you will receive... (oops! wrong sermon! )

Indeed I have good news! Kho was at my place yesterday and not only did he view the video clip, he saw at least 4 healthy Oto fry clinging to the tank walls and foraging amongst the detritus and mulm.

The following image was taken yesterday, when I siphoned 2 little fellas for closeup shots.


As for food, they seems to be doing ok on my concocted mess :wink:

Deborah, thanks for the well wishes. I'm back on track, well... kinda, but will post more and better pics (I hope) when this thingie arrive.

A Bausch & Lomb fixed brightfield 100X microscope

[RonWill]

Well, I think it is always good to standby some test kits, just so that when the fish spawn again, we can then do some testing of the water and have an idea what made them tick, and what's probably wrong

Kenny, all I'm able to account for presently are; pH, temp and TDS, which reads 6.5, 24.5 ºC and 102ppm respectively.

I have 'expired' kits in the toy box to test for Nitrate, Phosphate and others which I can't recall off hand, but not willing to repurchase them due to budget constraints (acquiring 2 more multi-tier setups soon).

Perhaps others will have a better idea of what happened, although I won't rule out premature hatching.

BTW, I'm getting desperate to achieve better macro pictures (no thanks to Benny's Fp GAR 'Lokoja' hatching pictures at the other forum :wink: ). Click here to see some off-beat stuffs I was using (There was one more toy in my armament that Kho felt was not 'safe' for others to view :wink: )

[RonWill]

Folks,
Having experienced Cherry shrimplets being sucked down the overflow pipe, I diy'ed another 'hatchery' that now functions as a prefilter.

Henri without filter tray (Oct 17th '04)


Henri with extended filter tray (Dec 13th '04)


My gut feelings were spot on. Noticed a few Oto fry in the 'prefilter' and here's a top view.


The harvest at 4mm, now transferred to another grow-out container.
Together with 2 little shrimplets

Otocinclus album

[Piscesgirl]

They are co cute!!!

[stormhawk]

Ron, Otocinclus ID in the works. Will inform once I get a proper confirmation. :wink:

[FC]

Ron,

Congratulation! I always like ottos as they are my best crews in planted tank.

Yes, there is potential for your works to be published on fish magazine. Tyrone, what do you think? I saw your article on Nov04 (?) issue.

[TyroneGenade]

I think I have already mailed Ron telling him to get in touch with an editor... I generally point towards the Editor of Tropical World Magazine but I'm sure you are talking about the T. vittatus article in FAMA. I've had that bit laying about in my PC folders for years... finally found someone who thought it was worthy of being published (possibly as a last resort)!

As regards my writing, everytime I reread my work I find another mistake or some other inperfection... as consequence I never read anything of mine once it goes to print. I can't imagine what literary horrors you found in that article!

regards

[stormhawk]

Adult fish in pictures are most probably an O. hoppei. That said, the person who IDed it has said that he is only 60% sure. Otocinclus species are hard to identify just on the basis of colouration and pattern.

A sharper cleaner picture would do wonders in many ways. An underside shot of the belly region of one the adults would also help.

I had a Parotocinclus species with me and was undecided whether it was a P. spilosoma or P. haroldoi. Both have a similar colour pattern. A picture of an undershot of the belly region proved that it was a spilosoma. Something to do with the presence of a fully plated abdomen or partially plated abdomen.

Usually the answers to a proper identification lie in the description papers themselves. Sometimes they do a revision of a genus and all the identification keys are mentioned on how to distinguish the species from each other.

[nonamethefish]

Any updates? How fast are they developing?

[RonWill]

As much as I would have hoped to bring good news, I'm afraid there won't be any updates, at least for this brood.

Joseph, it's been a tough ride trying to care for these Oto fry since I'm unfamiliar with their care and dietary requirement.

I separated the initial dozen into 6 fry per aerated grow-out trays. Things I've tried;
Tray with an abundance of various algae.
Vegetable and spirulina-based blended paste.
Assorted live foods.

Sadly, the fry don't stay where the food is and none of them survived past the first week.

To date, I've yet to find any 'flushed' fry down the overflow pipe or spot any in the breeding tank.

The age old proverb states that "failure is the stepping stone to success", so I'll persist. Hopefully, there's more to tell the next time.

[FC]

Ronnie,

You had done well. At least, the ottos are confident enough to it give a try (reproduction) on your tank and the environment you setup.

Sometimes I wonder, will the fries survive and grow without any intervention by letting them stay where they were born.

[TyroneGenade]

Sadly, the fry don't stay where the food is and none of them survived past the first week.

Where do they go?

A read one account for Ancistrus where old Amazon Sword plants with algae covered leaves were put with the brood and they would consume the algae on the leaves.

Hope you get another spawn soon!

[RonWill]

Freddy,
I'm quite sure that if the fry are left in a well established tank, their chances of survival, or the number of survivors, is much better than what I can offer. Often, it's a case of "less is more"*, like my 'neglected' Corydoras similis and there's about 30 fry of assorted sizes.
* less intervention, that is.

Meanwhile, I working on how to prevent fry getting sucked into the overflow downpipe.

Where do they go?

To the big 'fry-care centre in the sky', I guess.

A read one account for Ancistrus where old Amazon Sword plants with algae covered leaves were put with the brood and they would consume the algae on the leaves

Tyrone, beside an algae-coated container, there's also a small piece of driftwood with ferns and moss.

If Oto fry are herbivorous, that, together with my spirulina/vege paste would have sufficed... but it wasn't.

Kenny told me that these fry could be omnivorous since adult Otos are known to feed on tubifex and frozen bloodworm (mine does) and if that was the case, why didn't they feed on the microworms and chopped tubifex?

My observation was that the fry spent most of their time along the container wall and if they were feeding off the algae, then I'm very puzzled with zero survivor in both raising trays.

BTW, Tyrone, I did receive your note about submitting an Oto-breeding article but IMHO, it wouldn't be worth a hoot if I couldn't raise a brood. Next time perhaps.

Nonn, instead of a breeding article, let me see if a 'observation report' is worthy of a contribution.

[whuntley]

If Oto fry are herbivorous, that, together with my spirulina/vege paste would have sufficed... but it wasn't.

snip...

My observation was that the fry spent most of their time along the container wall and if they were feeding off the algae, then I'm very puzzled with zero survivor in both raising trays.

"Feeding off algae" can be a deceptive process. The algae layer is often the home to infusoria of all kinds. Millions of "Chinese Algae Eaters" (Gyrinocheilus aymonieri) are sold to poor innocent US aquarists with algae problems. The young seem to vigorously graze on algae, when they are actually just sucking out the live foods hiding therein. They eat little algae. They are nearly pure carnivores, and deserve their more accurate name of "Asiatic Scale Suckers." [I usually just use the initials.]

Otos live mostly in swift waters. Could the young need something associated with strong currents? They also come from very soft waters, which could make them sensitive to some trace element being missing, even if only needed in tiny amounts. Pupfish need boron, for example. A drop or two of general plant trace mix, like Tropica Master Grow, might provide something totally absent in your local water. IDK.

Wright

[nonamethefish]

Hopefully you can get them to spawn again. Were the otto fry unwilling to move to get food? I've heard that is a problem with whiptail catfish fry so they have to be literally surrounded by food-forgot the actual technique for doing so.

LOL Wright-but wouldn't the lower level infusoria be considered "plants"?

[whuntley]

LOL Wright-but wouldn't the lower level infusoria be considered "plants"?

Naah. Some folks lump Euglena or similar green-water genera into infusoria. They are not-plant and not-animal, but a class of their own between the two. They are actively-swimming flagellates, tho.

AFAIK, they don't live in the fuzz on the glass, like rotifers and similar micro-animals do.

Wright

[Nonn]

They will do it again Ron! I think leaving them in a well established tank might give them more chance, though. Sometimes, we, killi people, tend to be under estimate all other fish parental care since we are too much into killi which do nothing for their offspring.

[RonWill]

Hey folks, guess what I found in the Henri pre-filter box?


This time, I'm returning the fry back into the spawning tank and see any of them survive to juvenile stage. Interesting to note that it was exactly 2 months ago when I had otos fry.

Anyway, output to the Henri filter was reduced and that ought to minimize fry getting sucked into the overflow pipe. Crossing my fingers...

[Piscesgirl]

They're soooo cute! I hope they do well for you this time.

[livionakano]

Wow! This pre filter seems to be almost a hatchery box!
I wish you good luck with your new babies!
I love the Ottos !
I hope that someday this breeding will be so usual as some kinds of Corys breeding! Exclusively collected fishes always have the chance to cause some kind of trouble to their environment at their natural habitat, as many times this is done without any care to their original population.

Congratulations!

Livio