Bottom mops for peat divers?

[erikthur]

Bottom mops are generally used for bottom spawners like Fp sjoestedti.
I wonder if it can be used for peat divers too?
My purpose is to have a better control of the numbers of eggs which can be hard to find in the peat. I am thinking about putting a large enough bottom mop in a glass jar. Have anyone tried this technique and if so what are your experience?

[whuntley]

I have taught Nem. whitei (or whatever they are called this week) to use mops in a 5" flower pot as a diving medium. It worked with a domestic strain, but wasn't worth a hoot with some new wild imports, for some reason.

Glass containers have generally not been good, IME. Many killies aren't comfortable spawning where they can see possible egg predators swimming by, I guess. Sugar bowls that have lost their tops or the tall ceramic "glass" that comes with bathroom decorative sets have always worked better for me. YMMV.

Wright

[erikthur]

Thanks for your input.

The species I have right now are Simp suzarti, Pter longipinnis and they both accept peat in a glass jar. I also have a group of Simp whitei (according to Killi-Data online that is - everything is SO confusing) to start spawning.

I will look for ceramics instead since I agree with your thoughts on the subject.

[stormhawk]

Hi Erik, if I recall correctly, during one of the discussions on the SAA mailing group, with regards to the topic, someone from Brazil had success in spawning Simp. constanciae using bottom mops rather than peat moss and collecting viable eggs from the mops. Apparently the method works but only with some species.

Nonetheless, it is worth a try to place a dark coloured mop, probably those that are dark brown in colour and packed into a breeding bowl that is translucent or opaque.

The fish may 'learn' to view the dark brown mop as the peat moss.

[TyroneGenade]

I've spawned whitei, papilliferus, nigripinnis, suzarti and bellottii to spawn in mops shoved into a glass jar or opaque plastic tub. I never botherred with peat, I simple water incubated the eggs. They took about 4 to 6 weeks to develop and were stimulated to hatch with fresh peat and oxygen tablets.

tt4n

[RonWill]

I recall Sia Meng having tried strands of yarn in a cup and if memory serves me correct, he 'trained' peat spawners by slowly replacing the peat for yarn [the breeders learn to 'recognise' the container instead of what's inside].

Erik, you brought up a good topic, just when I've gotten tired of cleaning up the peat diver and plower's mess. Like yourself, I too, have problems looking for eggs in peat. So why not we try it and compare notes.

I have extra skein of dark brown yarn and can experiment with a few Simp species. The only thing I didn't realize was that these annual eggs can be water incubated (I have stellatus 'Urucuia', igneus, suzarti and whitei). FWIW, this method didn't work on Simp constanciae.

Tyrone, I've read somewhere that water-incubated annual fry are smaller, grow slower and generally less robust than those that underwent a period of dry incubation. Comments?

[TyroneGenade]

I've read somewhere that water-incubated annual fry are smaller, grow slower and generally less robust than those that underwent a period of dry incubation. Comments?

Yes, I have read this too. I have an article by Walter Foersch claiming the exact same thing that unless the eggs get a drying period they don't yield strong fry.

I am not convinced that this is because of water incubation or the fact that the eggs incubated too long.

I've water incubated several species now and it seems that as long as you hatch the eggs shortly after they eye up then it is business as usual. If the eggs sit a long time in water they use up their yolk sacks and die or hatch out as weak fry.

Just MHO.

tt4n

[erikthur]

I will try out bottom mops in my south american annuals and report my experience. Later perhaps my Nothos too, but I use the sand spawning method successfully with those.

[erikthur]

My young Simp. whitei took an interest in the bottom mop in a pot at once.
Of course I don´t know yet what they are doing there but I will find out.

[erikthur]

Time to report - I consider it a great success.
I used a 20 cm long mop with 100 strands in a squared pot.
I removed the mop after one week and I could harvest 80 viable eggs by just shaking the mop under water.
Few if any eggs stuck to the threads.
I will try this method with my other SAA

[RonWill]

Good work, Erik. I concur with your observation and results, albeit less eggs than you collected. Will be experimenting with the Nothos next. Let's compare notes then.

[erikthur]

I am still very happy with my results with the bottom mop.
A clear majority of the eggs was found inside the bottom mop of three species tested last week.
Nothobranchius foerschi - about 100 eggs of which about 90 % of the eggs were easily harvested by shaking the mop in the water. A few eggs stuck to the bottom mop and a few eggs were laid outside of the pot.
Simpsonichtys suzarti - about 60 eggs harvested similar distribution as above.
Pterolebias longipinnis - about 100 eggs harvested in a similar way.
Last week I could only see 3 LGP eggs because they were well camouflaged in the peat.