Is this Aphyosemion australe var. chocolate ?

[hwchoy]

Hey AuSL! This fish you gave me VERY VERY long ago. Someone tells me it is NOT Aphyosemion australe var. chocolate.

[Shae]

It looks like a dirty gold, it might have some of the choc strain in it?

Shae

[stormhawk]

Yes that's not a Chocolate.

[hwchoy]

then what is it?

[stormhawk]

For comparison, here's a picture of a good male Chocolate courtesy of Ronnie. I took this picture the last time we were at KL's house. Remember?



That said, the fish in your picture.. I'm not sure which variant it is but you're quite OK to label it just as Aphyosemion australe *Aquarium Strain*.

[RonWill]

then what is it?

A choc-full-of-orange, rich and tangey. Just what the good doc ordered.

Choy,
If I were you, Aphyosemion australe 'Aquarium strain' will do just fine (as are some entries in Aqualog) and drop the 'var' thingie... it isn't necessary.

[hwchoy]

For comparison, here's a picture of a good male Chocolate courtesy of Ronnie. I took this picture the last time we were at KL's house. Remember?



That said, the fish in your picture.. I'm not sure which variant it is but you're quite OK to label it just as Aphyosemion australe *Aquarium Strain*.

yes I have a pic of this guy too. but I thought it was ORANGE! but one thing is sure, his name is RANDY

[hwchoy]

Choy,
If I were you, Aphyosemion australe 'Aquarium strain' will do just fine (as are some entries in Aqualog) and drop the 'var' thingie... it isn't necessary.

I would have labeled it Aphyosemion australe had I not remember that Au said it was "choocolate". I'm asking him, my memory isn't what it should be.

as for the "var." thing, actually I needed to check with the ichthyologists on proper usage lazy to read that darn ICZN code

[RonWill]

yes I have a pic of this guy too. but I thought it was ORANGE!

tsk tsk tsk... bad representative image of a fine fish

Choy, thought you might like to know that the colors of most fishes are influenced by substrate type and also flash output (but I'm sure you knew that already )

If you still have the 'choc/orange', try different setups and see what you come up with.

[hwchoy]

yes I have a pic of this guy too. but I thought it was ORANGE!

tsk tsk tsk... bad representative image of a fine fish

Choy, thought you might like to know that the colors of most fishes are influenced by substrate type and also flash output (but I'm sure you knew that already )

If you still have the 'choc/orange', try different setups and see what you come up with.

one main difference is that mine was top flash while JY's is front flash. lighting angle makes a huge difference, that's why we should properly lit the fish using 3 flashes

which brings up a philosophical question. what is the "correct" colour of a fish? is it that while viewed under florescent (what temperature?) or under sunlight?

[stormhawk]

Under sunlight is best colour of the fish. I started taking photos in sunlight when I found it put forth the best colours of my fish.

For Chocolate australes a key point to note is that most good males in their prime will show a greenish sheen to the front portion of the body close to the head region. That is also seen in naturally lighted tanks.

Female chocolates also have a patterned region close to the edge of the dorsal and anal fins and almost grey to beige-coloured body.

That's how I differentiate between the variants.

[TyroneGenade]

Go see http://images.killi.net/a/AUS/chocolate/. Yes, your fish can be considerred chocolate although I regard this to refer to a fish much darker. I would prefer to lable yours "wildtype".

Regards

[hwchoy]

Under sunlight is best colour of the fish. I started taking photos in sunlight when I found it put forth the best colours of my fish.

have you tried comparing pics taken under sunlight and those with top flash? they should be close but I haven't seen an A/B test. Flash are tuned to be close to daylight.

[hwchoy]

Go see http://images.killi.net/a/AUS/chocolate/. Yes, your fish can be considerred chocolate although I regard this to refer to a fish much darker. I would prefer to lable yours "wildtype".

Regards

erm, why "wildtype"?

Ronnie, what strain is your RANDY supposed to be?

anyway here are the rest of Au's "chocolate" pics.

[stormhawk]

The female looks different from Chocolate variant females I've seen and kept.

Since the identity of the fish is not absolutely clear at this moment it would be better to remove the chocolate tag totally. In fact just labelling the picture as Aphyosemion australe, without wildtype or aquarium strain will do.

You could however add in a short comment that this was raised in an aquarium.

[hwchoy]

The female looks different from Chocolate variant females I've seen and kept.

Since the identity of the fish is not absolutely clear at this moment it would be better to remove the chocolate tag totally. In fact just labelling the picture as Aphyosemion australe, without wildtype or aquarium strain will do.

You could however add in a short comment that this was raised in an aquarium.

yes I will just apply the species without any variety label unless Au gives more info.

[Al Baldwin]

The "chocolate" varity doesn't show any orange on the body usually depending on fish a very dark brown or blue.

The so called orange/golden strain came into existance in 1953 after Hjerresen discovered a individual with a "white head" in a brood of AUS fry. This acquarium strain was mistakenly named Aphyosemion Australe Hjerreseni by Meinken but due to the fact that the fish doesn't exist in nature it was ruled invalid.

[TyroneGenade]

I am going to hazard a guess and say your australe are descended from the "spotless" import. Your female has very faint spots and this is characterisitc of this trait. As the spotless trait also seems to reduce the intensity of the colour it is a good bet you have some spotless alleles in your fish.

Now about the term "chocolate", this is a designation applies willy-nilly to fish that were not "gold". Your fish is certainly not "gold" but it certainly isn't as dark as some "chocolates". It seems to represent something of a more natural phenotype (i.e. one which has not been selected to conform to any preconceived standard) and so I would consider it to be "wildtype". If you go to http://images.killi.net and other sites and look at wild Kap Lopez and Port Gentile fish you will see that yours kind of conforms to what "wild" fish should look like.

If you breed your fish you will most likely find individuals who are darker and some who are lighter and over generations you could breed a strain to appeat as dark as this or like this.

Kind regards

[hwchoy]

I am going to hazard a guess and say your australe are descended from the "spotless" import. Your female has very faint spots and this is characterisitc of this trait. As the spotless trait also seems to reduce the intensity of the colour it is a good bet you have some spotless alleles in your fish.

Now about the term "chocolate", this is a designation applies willy-nilly to fish that were not "gold". Your fish is certainly not "gold" but it certainly isn't as dark as some "chocolates". It seems to represent something of a more natural phenotype (i.e. one which has not been selected to conform to any preconceived standard) and so I would consider it to be "wildtype". If you go to http://images.killi.net and other sites and look at wild Kap Lopez and Port Gentile fish you will see that yours kind of conforms to what "wild" fish should look like.

If you breed your fish you will most likely find individuals who are darker and some who are lighter and over generations you could breed a strain to appeat as dark as this or like this.

Kind regards

I'm damn impressed by the amount of deduction, inference and speculation that can be generated by a couple of pictures

[TyroneGenade]

Imagine what you could of accomplished with a juicy rumour.

I see the spotless gold is still in circulation in Singapore. When the weather over hear warms a bit I wouldn't mind trying to twist someone's arm into sending me some eggs in damp peat. Some eggs of a chocolate fish would be nice too. I want to start my genetic experiments again.

tt4n