Netting trip to FRIM.

[clem]

BTW, what camera you use to take such a close up?

[itssg]

I am using Olympus mju410. The other one using by robby is canon if i am not mistaken.

That is paludarium. I done on my 4feet. Instead of 6 feet.

[clem]

Good move!!! Your six feet tank is too high up. You need to get yourself in it to really plant. Your 4 feet tank location is just nice. You can move anything you want anytime you want. Tindakan yang arif.

[ayahpin2]

ok ok... I'm just stating my views here, afterall it's a free country. First of all my name is Haris Ismail. I was doing a search on the internet on FRIM and somehow ended up at this forum. Sorry I didn't managed to read the rules before posting as I was agitated and just want to point out my views. You can say I'm an old man with nothing to do in his free time. I don't know this hobby you guys are discussing in this forum, I just want my opinion to be heard as I have become disappointed with a lot of public people polluting things in any park. Here is my niece translating in 'good' Queen's English so everyone is happy.

Randall: I don't quite get what you mean I'm using vulgar words here. If you're definition of vulgar is of language or words expressed by common people than you are right. I am a common person. I don't hide and pretend. I don't need to. As I am is what I am. I'm a village common person.

Budak: You're comment is too deep for people like me to digest. But I roughly get what's the point you're trying to say. You write here you're sick and tired of nappy rash, have you seen non biodegrable used unwrapped nappy floating down the 'reserve' river? Have you seen, muddy coloured foam accumulating among the water plants near the banks? Have you seen styrofoam lunch boxes and some stray pieces of clothing littered among the rocks? If you have seen the amount I've seen in the parks you will know why I'm standing my point (plants have more survival rate in a hobbyist tank). Sorry to do this again folks but it's to quote back Budak.

Ya, kawan, anda tidak payah menghina saya dengan menguna bahasa putih yang canggih.

For those who more or less seeing my point of view: Yes, I may be pessimist. But it's just my views. Thanx for the honest views.

Aphy: Littering is not acceptable, yes. Everyone knows that in any country. The perspective here is if one is sayin 'no no' to one person while he/she commits something else just as bad. Here's the example: Mr Dom took some plants. People are alarmed he's destroyin nature. But the 'people', goes back home and do little things that contributes to the destruction on nature that they aren't aware off. So before anyone get alarmed, why don't stop and think what have you done lately to mother nature. Yes, this is a very controversial issue. My point is, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Stormhawk: Again the definition of vulgar. It irks you isn't it? Just as the earlier posts irks me. Anyway I have clarify the reasons. But then again it's an expression used everyday without much concern. One man's meat is another's poison. No offence.

Here's something to ponder. If one preach to be 'enviromentalish', what have you done so far than just 'talk and point fingers' rather than pack up your bags and do something for the enviroment.

[budak]

Haris,

In plain language, I don't understand how you can think that just because some people are littering and spoiling the environment, we can't question or discuss the ethics of collecting from the wild. Neither are you fair in assuming that the people here don't know or don't do anything on their part in nature conservation or awareness. "Kurang ajar", "I will report you!" and other compliments are kind words I have heard from people who think they have the right to do with nature as they wish.

Modern man has an undeniable ecological impact (through the resources we consume and the waste we generate). Pretty much the bulk of many countries' (e.g. Malaysia's) lands and waters are already given over to human needs. What I should like to stress is that some thought and care be given to the way the remaining nature areas is used or exploited. We Malaysians are all too often guilty of a tidak-apa attitude, believing that since damage is already done, there's no point harping about further harm. Such logic allows one to forego responsibility and defeat the efforts of those who do want to help the cause.

[Martian]

Great job in posting the pictures there Dom. I was waiting for them until I managed to find my way here today. Am shocked to find ppl airing their personal opinion of how others should conduct themselves.

Anyway, I'm curious about the bolbitis that you've collected. It does looks every bit like the bolbitis that I've kept before but my question is, isn't bolbitis supposed to be from Africa (hence the name african fern)? I'm surprised that we can find bolbitis here.

It's good that you and a good number of hobbyst are venturing into the unknown. That's the reason that we are able to enjoy the variety of aquatic plants that I'm spoiled for choice everytime I want to setup another tank. I didn't see anyone condemning Mr. Amano for venturing into Borneo, Amazon and many other jungles collecting flora and fauna.

Rgds,
Isaac

[PohSan]

To Moderators,
Please delete away all the unrelevant posts, include this post in this thread. It was totally out of topic.

Regards,
Ong Poh San

[stormhawk]

Haris, I feel you've done your bit in stating your case but there's really no need to take Budak's signature or his post out of context. I really didn't see how his English could have been offensive to you to the point that it came across as insulting your intelligence.

Yes, probably the expressions you used earlier were used in everyday life with very little consequence but that is when you banter around with friends and family. But using those terms against people you barely know can come across as being very offensive to them. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I just shot off a malicious statement meant to inflame your anger.

You said you are common village person and there's no need to hide that fact. True, but have you thought how you would be perceived if you attacked someone verbally without thinking of how they would feel?

We must however understand that each person has his/her own views and there isn't one singular view that is perfectly correct or without flaws.

I know the littering problem is always around. I've seen it happen even in the houses of my relatives in Melaka but as long as it remains an accepted practice that littering is OK to most people then it will always remain. Here in Singapore the act of littering comes with a hefty fine and even a community work order to make them become cleaners for a day. Perhaps its the fines that keep people in check but littering still occurs every now and then in Singapore. I'm not saying that the practice is different per country but as long as the mindset is not switched to practising good rubbish disposal policies then people will almost always revert to being litter bugs.

Give your fellow Malaysians time to adapt to the changes in society. Perhaps some are litterbugs but there's always some good ones around. Not every single apple is a rotten one. Take pride in the fact that there are several people out there who are taking a stand against this problem in the parks and forests. Relax a little and you'll feel much better.

I know of some people who say they're environmentalists and conservationists but they don't help out when a species is going into extinction. Some can't even keep their pets alive.

[budak]

The genus Bolbitis occurs in both Asia and Africa. There is even one species (Bolbitis xsingaporeansis) which was once found only in Singapore, but is now extinct. The most commonly found Asian species is B. heteroclita, which has non-pinnate, tri-lobed leaves. Most other regional Bolbitis species are purely terrestrial ferns though. What Dom collected is a type of fern known as a filmy fern, which lives by waterfalls and streams. I can't remember the genera (starts with 'H'), but they are not known to survive for long underwater. Humid paludariums should be fine.

Isaac, we all have our right to our opinions and to air it. Sometimes, one may voice out concern about another's conduct, and the one addressed may of course defend or assess his or her act. I don't think the posts in this thread should be deleted (moved perhaps to the ChitChat section if the mods deem it fit). Too often, a debate that can plough through simplistic stances and shed light on why people think the way they do is avoided simply because of fear of giving offence. Worse, if one fears to voice out despite tugging consciences.

[stormhawk]

Anyway, I'm curious about the bolbitis that you've collected. It does looks every bit like the bolbitis that I've kept before but my question is, isn't bolbitis supposed to be from Africa (hence the name african fern)? I'm surprised that we can find bolbitis here.

There is a species of Bolbitis native to the region called Bolbitis heteroclita I think.

[timebomb]

To Moderators,
Please delete away all the unrelevant posts, include this post in this thread. It was totally out of topic.

Thanks for your concern, Poh San but as far as I'm concerned, none of the posts here in this thread will be deleted. The fact that we have very strict rules on the language used and the fact that we're always exhorting all forum users to put down their real names in their posts may make us (the moderators) seem like a group of people who tolerate no nonsense. But the truth is we believe everyone has a right to express his or her opinions, even though the opinions expressed are sometimes out-of-topic.

In order to have true freedom of speech, we have to learn to live with a bit of nonsense. Freedom of speech is such you allow the other guy to have his say, even if what he says goes against the grain of your beliefs.

Loh K L

[timebomb]

ok ok... I'm just stating my views here, afterall it's a free country. First of all my name is Haris Ismail. I was doing a search on the internet on FRIM and somehow ended up at this forum. Sorry I didn't managed to read the rules before posting as I was agitated and just want to point out my views. You can say I'm an old man with nothing to do in his free time. I don't know this hobby you guys are discussing in this forum, I just want my opinion to be heard as I have become disappointed with a lot of public people polluting things in any park. Here is my niece translating in 'good' Queen's English so everyone is happy.

Well, Haris Ismail, thanks for letting us know your real name. Let me be the first to welcome you to this forum, even if it was by accident that you found us. More often than not, people who register themselves here assumed that the culture here is no different from other forums. This creates a lot of work for the moderators here as we have to constantly remind new users to write in proper English and spell correctly. Don't get us wrong. We don't insist on perfect English but we hope everyone will make an effort to make their posts comprehensible to others.

If you're not already in the hobby, you don't know what you're missing. We're into aquaria. The folks here either love fish or aquatic plants. Many, like me, love both.

We can understand how you feel about being disappointed by public littering. I think more damage is done to nature reserves by the things people bring in rather than the things they take out.

Here's something to ponder. If one preach to be 'enviromentalish', what have you done so far than just 'talk and point fingers' rather than pack up your bags and do something for the enviroment.

I have to confess I'm not much of an environmentalist but I know for a fact that Budak cares and do a lot for the environment. I have seen his letters in the press where he writes of protecting the natural biodiversity of our nature reserves. As for pointing fingers, I don't think he did anything of that sort here in this thread but if anyone has the right to point fingers, Budak is the man. He has done much more to create awareness of environmental issues than the average guy.

If only I can persuade him to put down his real name in his posts

Loh K L

[RRG]

The genus Bolbitis occurs in both Asia and Africa. There is even one species (Bolbitis xsingaporeansis) which was once found only in Singapore, but is now extinct. The most commonly found Asian species is B. heteroclita, which has non-pinnate, tri-lobed leaves. Most other regional Bolbitis species are purely terrestrial ferns though. What Dom collected is a type of fern known as a filmy fern, which lives by waterfalls and streams. I can't remember the genera (starts with 'H'), but they are not known to survive for long underwater. Humid paludariums should be fine.

No wonder this plants keep dying on me. I asked one of the employee at my LFS selling this plant if this is true aquatic plant, and of course they quickly said yes. At first this plants is green in my tank and a couple months later the leaves turns black and breaks apart. My first clue should have been the roots. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think the true aquatic Bolbitis has a root similar to Java Ferns.

[stormhawk]

I think I might know the genus of fern that Budak has mentioned.

The one we usually see in aquaria.. but happens to be a terrestrial fern would be one of the Trichomanes species.

The one that Dominic found at FRIM is most probably one of the Hymenophyllum species. I'm not sure which one but it could probably be H. demissum.



Photo from Hiddenforest.co.nz

[Martian]

Thanks for your reply in regard to Bolbitis. I guess it's just a matter of time before we know if the one collected by Dom is indeed another aquatic fern.

[stormhawk]

For that plant to be positively identified it would require the help of an expert in ferns.

Dominic, perhaps you can contact Dr Aminah from the insitute to help you out? A proper ID may help in knowing captive conditions for this species by comparison with related fern species already kept by hobbyists.

The mushroom may not be a mushroom but rather some other specialised plant. I saw this succulent plant at Ronnie's home the other day. It does resemble the mushroom you photographed in form but it isn't one.

[budak]

The metallic blue fern is a species of Selaginella, a genus closely related to ferns, but having the misleading common name of club-mosses. Some species are often wrongly sold as aquatic plants.

I can't say I know my mosses, but suspect you found no peat mosses there. Especially on trees. Peat mosses tend to be ground-dwelling wetland plants. Also, it's probably highly unlikely that mosses found in non-flood prone (esp hilly) areas will have aquatic forms. Not impossible, but I think it's becoming a curious trend whereby people are taking every moss and expecting it to be the next Erect/Weeping/Xmas moss.

The colourful plant with the heart-shaped leaves looks like a Caladium sp. It's related to the taros (same family), but Caladiums are native to South America, not Asia. If you go into the jungles, you can probably find native aroids (Alocasias, Colocasias, Aglaoenemas....). Anubias and Cryptocorynes are also part of the aroid family.

[stormhawk]

If that plant is a Caladium sp. and since they're native to South America, aren't those introduced plants there?

The worst thing that can happen in a forest is to have alien species proliferate at the expense of native species.

Dominic, if this plant really isn't native to Malaysia then you just did a favour to the environment by removing it for use in your paludarium.

[stormhawk]

Budak, the need to find something new to excite the minds of hobbyists blurs the line between finding something new to grow and finding something new to sell.

While there would be those out there who collect these mosses to make a fast buck there will also be those who collect these as a passion and an attempt at captive propagation of a species.

[itssg]

Great. This is the response which I hope to read through. At least, I know the plants name which what i saw.

Different people have different opinion. I just want to share all about what i found in FRIM. I am still waiting the reply from FRIM - Dr.Aminah. Hoping she will giving me some good news.

Cheers,
dom