Killi food

**hobgoblin** · 27th Mar 2005, 00:52

Hi everyone,

I am prissy when it comes to feeding my Killies tubifex. How do you all go about preparing them for feeding, and also maintaining them (keeping the tubifex alive)? Most of the time, my tubifex placed in shallow water with aeration, gives off a bad stench overnight. Also, I've read that tubifex aren't recommended for feeding because of the high fatty acid content apart from the polluted/contaminated environment which they are harvested from.

I was contemplating a switch to blood worms, but they are equally bad, ain't it? Given the weather in SG, blood worms can't be kept long and that's another disadvantage. I gave meal worms a pass as it floats and wasn't appetizing to the fishes. I can always rely on granulated fish food which they like, but it's not natural per se, and lacking in certain aspects.

Anyway, I'd just like to know what you guys feed your killies. Is there such a thing as the ideal food?

Drew

**RonWill** · 27th Mar 2005, 06:35

Andrew,
For tubifex, try this;
Use aquarium water to rinse and remove any dead worms with eye-dropper or turkey baster.
Maintain also in aquarium water, about 4inches depth, with moderate aeration from airstone.
At least 2 rinse daily and don't use straight tap water.

Post your observation whether the tubifex keep better and we'll discuss about the other issues later.

**nonamethefish** · 27th Mar 2005, 07:14

I'm maintaining my blackworms in a tub with water about 2 inches. Its kept cool-no aeration, and a little sand and some filter floss for the worms. As long as you don't put too many worms in too fast it works well. Aeration and waterchanges could increase the carrying capacity a bit. They also seem to reproduce(well they turn from big worms into lots of small ones).

**turaco** · 27th Mar 2005, 11:29

Ron,
I wash my tubifex worm under tap water. No harm done. In fact, got a feeling that the chlorine in the water might kill the whatever nasties in it.
Drew,
Get from a reliable source. The worm must be clean & lively when you buy it. Give it a few rinse per day & leave them in a plate with shallow water(just enough to keep them damp) may do. Or, leave them under very slow dripping tap will even be better.

**hobgoblin** · 27th Mar 2005, 13:51

Mr Gan: I use to keep the worms in a shallow tray of water. But after half a day, an oily layer of film and gunk starts to form on the surface. Sometimes, there's also a risk of it drying up, forming a starchy layer. It smells bad also. In preparing the worms and storing it, I use water straight from the tap. As you said, 'no harm done'.

Ron: I have been using aged water plus areation for the past few days for comparison actually. But today, I wanted to test one of the dechlorinator that i just got- Seachem Prime. Added it to a bucket of water and set it aside for at least an hour. Thereafter I washed it using a mesh, and store it in the dechlorinated water. Straight away they sprang back to life; colour changed from an initial brown, to reddish brown. I got a better response so to speak, compared to using water straight from the tap.

Note: I bought the worms of friday night from C328.

Regards,
Drew

**stormhawk** · 27th Mar 2005, 14:09

Hi Andrew,

The viability of the worms depends on their freshness and how long they had spent in that small plastic bag with very little water at the LFS.

Fresh worms that are bright red in colour and wriggling vigorously in a tight ball during aeration or while still in the bag are healthy and ready to be fed to the fish.

When the worms turn a slight brownish colour and start becoming sluggish, that is when they are about to die.

The oily film and gunk appears very soon when the worms at the core of the ball start to die and decompose. This can be seen from the bottom of a clear container. The decomposing matter can be easily removed either with a dropper, syringe or some kind of suction tube. I use a turkey baster for this application.

Giving them several good rinses under tap water, rinse off the swirling dirt in the water column, drain most of the tap water out and then keeping them in a tray of aged aquarium water with slight aeration via an airstone helps to keep them healthy.

I've kept a ball of tubifex worms alive for almost a week with the usual worm die-offs but if you keep rinsing off the dirty water regularly at intervals of about 2 or 3 hours the worms should not die off in large numbers.

It is something in the water that is affecting the worms badly. Probably chloramine is killing them slowly but as long as you keep up with the water changes for the tubifex tray, they remain healthy for quite some time.

**whuntley** · 27th Mar 2005, 22:41

I do not believe that Tubifex are very sensitive to chlorine/chloramine. Please test to confirm, as my experience was only with chlorine.

Way back, when they were legal in CA, I used to buy them from Altadena Water Gardens in Pasadena. They kept them in a vertical stack of narrow, shallow trays with running tap water (loaded with chlorine). [Trays were 6" wide, 1-2" deep with about 1/2-3/4" of water and about 4' long.] New worms went into the bottom tray and, as worms were sold from the top tray, others (now gut-purged) got moved up one step. Water was from the top with a standpipe overflow to the tray below, so the dirtiest water exited from the bottom tray.

I only bought a couple of ounces at a time, carried them home in minimal water, so they got lots of oxygen, and stored them in a quart Mason jar with a wide mouth. That jar fit perfectly into the tank behind my toilet, without blocking the flushing mechanism. Every time we flushed the toilet, they got a couple of gallons of fresh water. It sometimes had up to 3 ppm of chlorine, but the Tubifex seemed indifferent to that (and should react the same to chloramines). They stayed in their usual clump in the bottom of the tall jar, which could be lifted out for getting some worms for a feeding. I never saw a worm escape. Guests never even knew they were there.

I regret that the California Blackworms that replaced them, when imports from Mexico were banned for health reasosns, cannot take that deep water when crowded, so the trick does not work for them. Apparently, from their dark brown color, they have less hemoglobin, so suffocate much easier, and must be kept in shallow worm-keepers that let them breathe air through their tail sections (a trick Tubifex never learned).

As I recall from 50 years ago, the main trick with tubifex was enough flowing water or water changes to get rid of any dead worms and debris before it could foul the water. The toilet-tank method will work, if your plumbing is similar, with a reservoir behind the toilet with an easily-removed lid. A modest amount of worms in several gallons of often-changed water will keep for a very long time.

Wright

**bettawalk** · 27th Mar 2005, 23:17

Have anyone tryed gammarus shrimp before ? I just got a starter culture and was woundering if it was good for killies ?

**RonWill** · 28th Mar 2005, 02:29

Chee Mun,
Gammarus can be found living in fresh, sea or brackish water, with about 200+ known species. They all look very similar and you'd have difficulty trying to distinguish them between Gammarus Pulex, G. duebeni, G. lacustris or G. tigrinus.

Some can reach 3cm and are known to eat fish eggs, so I suggest you find out which species you bought.

I used to culture the common Gammarus Pulex and their young are about the same size as young Daphnia magna, but not all killies like them. Wished I knew why.

For now, I'm culturing Daphnia magna and some starters, together with freshwater rotifer and Walter worms (also known as Mini-microworms), will be available for sale at our 2nd Gathering (we're still ironing out the details).

**bettawalk** · 28th Mar 2005, 06:39

Yea, i have both 1cm big ones and one which is about 1-2mm big , both in the same culture. I sopose the smaller one must be Garmmarus Pulex ?

Is it good for feeding killies ?

**nonamethefish** · 28th Mar 2005, 06:52

Depends on what kind of killies. They are really fast and also hard shelled, so most of the smaller killies probably won't be able to catch them. They are great for feeding small cichlids and sunfish, and I'm willing to bet that some of the smaller fundulopanchax and Nothobranchius would relish them too.

**bettawalk** · 28th Mar 2005, 15:59

I am currently feeding it to my bettas and they seem to love it, the smaller shrimps, my wild betta livida loves it too.
Have not tryed it on killies yet.

**hobgoblin** · 1st Apr 2005, 10:13

Hi all,

I did some experimentation with the Tubifex worms. Here are the observations:

Container With 7cm of Water and Aeration

Setup-1
Previously, I used tap water straight from the tap to wash and store the Tubifex. I noticed that the colour of the worms were brownish-red. The activity(wriggling) in the worms slowed down considerably, and mortality rates were high. Water changes were carried out daily, twice a day.

Setup-2
I switched to dechlorinated water. Water mixed with anti-chlorine (Seachem Prime), and left to settle for about 2 hours. Used tap water for washing and rinsing the worms, and dechlorinated water for storing the worms. Very low mortality rates, sometimes non-existant. Activity of the worms increased, and the odour produced at the end of the day wasn't as bad as Setup 1.

Setup-3
In this setup I used aged aquarium water for storage, and tap water for rinsing and cleaning. Activity of the worms were comparable or better than Setup 2. Death rates were non-existant.

The amount of worms used was around 50cc, and the results from the experiments were generalised. I think an important factor to keeping them alive, longer, is the quantity. The bio-load produced by these worms are also a variable. I noticed that in Setup 1, there's more bio-load (gunky, pasty waste) than the other setups. For all the setups, I placed them in a shady area, subjected to ambient tempreature. They can be kept fresher, if chilly water is used (or rather stored in a fridge). These worms feed on bacteria based on what I read hence aged aquarium water is optimal.

http://www.lander.edu/rsfox/300oligoLab.html

Hope this helps.

Drew

**timebomb** · 1st Apr 2005, 15:56

Originally Posted by a

I think an important factor to keeping them alive, longer, is the quantity.

Drew,

Besides quantity, quality is very important too. I found out recently after Ronnie gave me some of his Tubifex worms, that there is a very great difference in quality. I buy my worms from the fish shop at the foot of my block and they usually last 3 days at the most. More often than not, they are all dead after 2 days. But the ones I got from Ronnie survived more than 6 days. The ones from Ronnie were so fresh that I fed them all to my fish, right down to the last worm. I keep my worms in a small plastic container under a leaking tap.

I now buy my worms from a different source, from a fish shop in the wet market opposite my block. Where I have to buy worms once every 2 days or so, I now buy them only once a week. The ones from the market are just as fresh as those Ronnie gave me. Freshness is the most important factor in keeping the worms alive.

Loh K L

**hobgoblin** · 1st Apr 2005, 23:32

Mr Loh,

You are right about the quality. Quality of worms remains an important factor. But I think to some extent it can be remedied. If provided the right conditions, the worms can be brought back to better 'health' so to speak, provided that it is done soon.

The LFS in my area stocks up fresh tubifex everyday of the week except Tuesday. So on Tuesday, they will sell the remaining worms that were kept overnight. How they keep the worms remains questionable, but I did observe one thing. The natural reaction of these worms in the wild to predators, is to shrink back into a clump of ball when intimidated. The worms are sensitive to light, and if a shadow is cast upon it, an immediate reaction should be expected for healthy worms. I find this an accurate manner to guage the quality of worms. Again this is a general observation.

Drew

**hobgoblin** · 13th Apr 2005, 10:25

Hi all,

Just wondering if Tubifex can be enriched?
And also, has anyone tried this product?

http://www.aquaz.org/food_astanx_enhance.htm

Regards,
Andrew