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Thread: Endler's Livebearers

  1. #1
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    Endler's Livebearers

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    Folks,
    I've seen many pics of Endlers online and am curious to know if there's more than one 'strain' or color variation.

    Here's what I'm raising and it appears very similar to those that Kwek Leong brought back from Bangkok, believed to be from Nonn, I think.

    Another thing. I didn't know that gups also 'school' readily when there's no threat. Here's their home...


    The male Endler that Jian Yang received from Kwek Leong


    Comments anyone?
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Ronnie, there are at least 4 distinct colour strains.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Choy, do these strains have a name in particular and how would I know which is which? Any links where I can further pursue the subject? Many thanks.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Hi Ron,

    Here is a strain I find pretty:



    The seller (Adrian,SwampriverAquatics on Aquabid) calls it: NEON BLUE WILD TYPE GUPPY.

    Check his other strains at: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/aucti...priveraquatics

    Thanks,
    Emre Engin,

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    Emre, yours is a guppy Poecilia reticulata, which is related to but not the same species as Endler's Livebearers, which actually do not have a scientific name.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Endler's are nearly as variable as wild guppies, but the original ones introduced to the Bay Area by Prof. Bob Endler, of UC Santa Barbara, looked very much like the ones you have pictured.

    Selection for more orange has lost the pretty green irridescence in some local strains. Such specialty fish often go through tight genetic bottlenecks, so the advent of special color strains can be expected.

    I hope you work to keep that natural wild pattern, for I have not seen it around here for a long time. BG tried to send me some from LA, last year, but it was too cold and they didn't make it. I suspect the town refuse dump where they were originally collected had long since been filled in. I have not heard of any recent wild sightings, tho some collectors are still looking.

    I had some when they were first introduced, and found they were excellent "dither" fish to calm and reassure the more shy killies. Try keeping them with Aphyo. celiae celiae if you want to encourage that reclusive, but beautiful, species out of the weeds.

    Wright
    01 760 872-3995
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    Bishop, CA 93514 USA

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    You are right, I didn't notice he called it "...WILD TYPE GUPPY" until now.

    sorry,
    Emre Engin,

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonWill
    Choy, do these strains have a name in particular and how would I know which is which? Any links where I can further pursue the subject? Many thanks.
    check these out:

    http://members.cox.net/newcomb1/endlers.html
    and just google the rest. couldn't find a very comprehensive site I once saw.

    it was said that Endler's exihibit a strong stroke patterns with a characteristic dark green splotch. seems some of the "strains" appearing on the net looks more like guppies than Endler's. However Prof. Endler himself maintains that his Endlers and guppies were never observed to hybridise.


    here you have the Prof. Endler's own article:

    http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/p-endlers.html
    http://www.jcu.edu.au/school/tbiol/z...aff/endler.htm
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Quote Originally Posted by Science
    You are right, I didn't notice he called it "...WILD TYPE GUPPY" until now.

    sorry,
    Emre, I just saw one site showing an "Endler" with the pattern you showed. is it really an Endler, who knows? It doesn't look like the original Endler's with the green pattern.

    I wish people wouldn't try to make too much aquarium strains out of perfectly pretty fishes. They are already extinct in the wild, apparently.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Wright,
    If the Endlers' natural habitat, even if it's just a dump site, has indeed been destroyed, I'll just kick in 'maintenance mode' and yes, propagate them as they are. The young males' colors are not as distinctive yet but it's a pleasant departure from the fancy guppy strains. If Prof. Bob Endler can verify what I have and would like some to work on, let me know.

    As for Aphyo. celiae celiae, I'm afraid the local hobbyists will find them bland when compared to say, Aphyo. striatum. I have a pair of those and you're right about them being reclusive. My question is, will the celiae prey on Endler newborns?

    Emre,
    I think you need reading glasses as much as I do The guppy looks rather nice and thanks for the link.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonWill
    As for Aphyo. celiae celiae, I'm afraid the local hobbyists will find them bland when compared to say, Aphyo. striatum. I have a pair of those and you're right about them being reclusive. My question is, will the celiae prey on Endler newborns?
    Probably, and the Endlers no doubt like killy eggs. I would use them as dithers in a display situation, but not when I was trying to breed either species. Those Aphyos do better in a group, in my experience. That, too, can bring them out a bit.

    The brilliant black and white bands on the unpaired fins make celiae celiae one of the more spectacular Aphyos. Don't you guys ever get tired of looking at blue or green fish with red stripes?

    Wright
    01 760 872-3995
    805 Valley West Circle
    Bishop, CA 93514 USA

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    I'm not tired of the blue-green fish with red stripes but I certainly love my purplish Simp. hellneri.

    A. celiae is a nice species though not as flashy as others. I would for one, start drooling over A. hera.

    The male in the picture of mine that Ron posted was part of a pair that KL gave me. I passed them on to Ron to see if he would have more luck in getting progeny. He didn't have the same luck and the friend of his whom he passed it on, didn't have any babies either. Come to think of it, either the male was a eunuch or the female just didn't want to let go of the fry.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Dawkinsia assimilis, Heros efasciatus - Looking for Pelvicachromis taeniatus
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    Isn't that just another blue and red fish? Might as well do jorgenscheeli if you like that set of colors.

    Wright

    PS. I believe the first heras captured and brought back from Gabon were by my good friend in Palo Alto, Padre Derugin. He and Andreas Kleisch were with Peter Tirbak when he discovered the species.
    01 760 872-3995
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    Nope, hellneri is pretty much purplish with black and a little blue.

    joergenscheeli is a dream although my liking veers off into SAAs rather than Aphyosemions. Besides, I read somewhere that its a difficult little bugger.

    Yup I remember that they were the discoverers of the species. Back then it was labelled as Aphyosemion sp. TDK 97/29 and 97/30. Does Padre Derugin still have this species?
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Dawkinsia assimilis, Heros efasciatus - Looking for Pelvicachromis taeniatus
    -back to old school fish-

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    I meant hera, not hellneri, is another red and blue (green) fish.

    Padre's daughters started getting older and needed collegiate education, last I heard. I have a feeling the demands and expenses of that cut deeply into his hobby, and the 2 girls were the primary active killy breeders in the house, anyway. It is most unlikely that he still has them. They may still have some killies if Lissa is still living at home, but the heavy demands of Padre's parrish probably would keep him from doing very much with them without his daughter's aid.

    Wright
    01 760 872-3995
    805 Valley West Circle
    Bishop, CA 93514 USA

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    Ah, that's a pity. It seems to be quite hard to find in the hobby if information from some people are anything to go by.

    Back to the Endler's. Ron's shoal never fails to impress. When the males start to colour up, its really a beautiful show of colours and activity in the tank.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Dawkinsia assimilis, Heros efasciatus - Looking for Pelvicachromis taeniatus
    -back to old school fish-

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Science
    Hi Ron,

    Here is a strain I find pretty:



    The seller (Adrian,SwampriverAquatics on Aquabid) calls it: NEON BLUE WILD TYPE GUPPY.

    Check his other strains at: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/aucti...priveraquatics

    Thanks,
    Hi Emre,
    these are no Endlers but japan blue wild-type (actually shorttails which do not belong to any standard) guppies. In Japan this coloration is called aquamarine. It's origin is in Japan and it is now a popular fancy guppy strain, although it does not match any standard and it is useless for a serious fancy guppy breeder like me. The name the seller gave them is totally wrong. A neon blue guppy is a neon tuxedo aka halfblack neon blue/red guppy with heterozygote the base body color rē (asian blau). It looks totally different.

    regards

    Robert

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    There was an article in TFH last year on the Endlers. They are still doing well in the wild where they exist as far more than only 4 colour varieties. The colour varieties are very plastic and can be alterred (reversably) with a little directional selection.

    tt

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