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Thread: Velvet

  1. #1
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    Velvet

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    Hi, fellas,

    This post is for Selena and Mark. They are new to Killies and as far as I know, they have not seen the disease on their fish before.

    It's been a while since I've seen Velvet in my tanks. But it was there just before I left for Malaysia last week. My Nothobranchius rachovii's were affected. Nothos are highly susceptible to velvet but if you aren't familiar with the parasite, you may not be aware that your fish have been infected. So I thought I should show you all some pictures.

    This young male is showing signs of the disease. Velvet appears as brown/gold dust specks and they always strike between the eyes of the fish, on the top of their heads.


    A shot of the same fish taken from above.


    A close-up shot of an older male in advanced stages of infection.


    The same male. Notice the velvet is clearly visible around the rims of the eyes and between the scales on the back of the fish.


    A shot of the same fish taken from above.


    Loh K L

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    Yikes!. That's nasty. The only fish I have that got hit by velvet was a trio of Fundulosoma theirryi. Fortunately they survived that episode after being treated with aquarium salt and are currently spawning.

    Thanks for the images KL. Greatly appreciated. I seldom view the fish from above. Prefer to look at the body and fins to detect the disease.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

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    My tank of about twenty magnificus fry of 1.5cm were (I think ) velvet recently. I tried salt, I tried ketapang and finally I recalled, about using this PP treatment for Discus. Would you believe, a couple of hours later most of the fins and tails are unclamped and no more rubbing. Fish happy I happy.

    PP treatment is very lethal, over/wrong dosage will burnt their gills. Don't try if you are not familiar with it.


    -----------------------------------------

    Selena

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    Potassium permanganate treatment works but like you said Selena, its dangerous if you're not familiar with it.

    I think one small tiny crystal is all you need to treat a small 1 foot tank.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

  5. #5

    Thanks for the photos

    I noticed one of my killies was clamped up a week ago and wondered if he had velvet, so I removed him to a little bowl and put in some salt, after a few days he was fully spread again so I figure he's fine. But he didn't have little specks on him like that, just a slight discoloration (more gold colored than usual) and fin clamping. Maybe the other male fish was just beating on him or something.

    I'd tried searching for actual photos, since a drawing of the disease isn't very helpful, imo, but couldn't find any. These photos help alot, glad it wasn't really velvet.

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    Hi, folks,

    Clamped fins aren't symptoms of Velvet. In fact, even in advanced stages of infection, the fish rarely exhibit clamped fins. I have encountered Velvet in my tanks many times so I should know

    Salt alone won't cure fish of Velvet disease. Velvet is much harder to treat than Ich (White Spot Disease) although both are parasites. I have on one occasion put so much aquarium salt into an infected tank, I turned it into a marine tank. The Nothos survived the marine water but the Velvet didn't go away.

    I seriously doubt Potassium Permanganate helps too. If it worked for you, chances are your fish weren't infected with Velvet but Ich.

    I'm not worried about the Velvet in my tanks now not because I'm confident of eradicating the parasite. It's always tough with Velvet. But it's because that although the fish are seriously infected, they show no signs of distress. They are still swimming happily and eating well. It's always a good sign when the fish are eating, that I know.

    To treat Velvet, it's best to move all the fish into a hospital tank. But I ran out of tanks so I'm going to try and cure them in their original tank. I'm using Protozin from Waterlife. I have good results with this brand of medication in the past but one can never be sure with the Velvet parasite. There seems to be a particularly stubborn strain that is very difficult to eradicate. On most occasions, I succeeded in curing the fish but there were a few times, the fish died from the disease although I tried many methods and different brands of medication.

    Wish me luck.

    Loh K L

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    Hi Mr Loh,

    What's the most effective medicine that you have used to date in treating intermediate to advance stage of velvet in your fishes?

    When I started with the killies, I was lacking fish meds in my inventory. Right now what I have is methylene blue (quintessential, generall purpose med).

    How about a list of medications or solutions to have around?

    Regards,
    Andrew

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    Quote Originally Posted by a
    What's the most effective medicine that you have used to date in treating intermediate to advance stage of velvet in your fishes?
    Andrew, it's what I said in my earlier post - Protozin from WaterLife. This brand of medication is available in most of the established fish shops. I have also used Odi-Mor from Aquarium Munster effectively on a few occasions but this latter brand is more famous for it's Anti-Ich (Fau La Mor) medication.

    Adding salt to the tanks helps but it won't work if that's the only thing you do. Raising the temperature and covering the tank until it's completely dark are another 2 methods that are helpful but as with adding salt, it won't cure the fish if that's all you do.

    It's good to have a list of effective medications but having been on the net for quite a while, I believe the problems most of us face is getting the correct diagnosis. We're like doctors who are asked to give the correct diagnosis without having a chance to examine the patient That's why I took the pictures. It's to share with you all how exactly Velvet looks like.

    Let me tell you a story, a funny but sad one.

    Many years ago, a hobbyist friend called me on the phone. He sounded worried. He told me his precious Goldfish have been hit by White Spot Disease. He said there were just a few spots so I thought it wasn't a big deal. So I said to him, "Don't worry. Add a heater into the tank, throw in some salt and get yourself a bottle of Fau La Mor. Dose as per instructions and on the 5th day, the fish will be cured".

    On the 5th day, he called again. "The fish still show white spots", he said. "It can't be", I thought. I have cured fish which were almost completely covered with white spots using Fau La Mor. It's a very effective medicine. But I tried to sound confident over the phone so I told him, "Okay, maybe you didn't use the correct dosage. Change half your water, repeat the medication but double the dose".

    A few days later, he called again. "The fish are all dead", he said. "How can that be", I was shocked. When I asked him for the details, he said, "I did as what you instructed but the white spots were still there. So I kept adding the medication. I dosed and I dosed and eventually, all the fish died".

    And suddenly it struck me. "Where were the White Spots?", I asked. "They were mostly on the gills", he replied. "On My God", I said, "Those aren't white spots; they're breeding spots". Good grief.

    For those who are unaware, certain strains of Goldfish exhibit white spots on their gills when they're in the mood to breed. It's a sign of spawning behaviour.

    Loh K L

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    I think that Aquarium Munster medication is called Fau Na Mor instead of Fau La Mor.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

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    Thanks for pointing out the spelling error, Jianyang. I don't have the medicine with me so I was recalling from memory.

    By the way, here's a whole picture of the male which is seriously infected. Take note the fins are not clamped.



    Loh K L

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    KL thanks for the detailed pictures. Read somewhere (march'05)in killitalk that theyare offering US$100 for infected fish.

    Checked yesterday night on the trio you given me. Yes they are hit with velvet and in worse condition than yours. No wonder they are not in the mood to breed and I thought it was hot spell that affecting the production. Anyway I eradicated the problem with PP treatment and did some gentle rubbing with a soft towel. Will do follow-up treatment 2 days later. Had sucessfully treated a male magnificus with a cottony growth on his tail with the same method.

    The rachovii tank is now sooo..... clean after the treatment. I chlorox(use for bleaching and a disinfectant) , scrub twice, wash twice, rinse twice, polished and finally air-dried. If I have a big oven, I could or maybe ............
    Believe me, it's so clean, I thought about serving my fried noodle in it during the Meet

    ----------------------------------------
    Selena

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    Just to let you all know -

    I never managed to get rid of the Velvet. The medication didn't work. It seems to help a bit but the velvet is still there. The fish don't seem the worse for it though. They are eating well and swimming about happily.

    I collected the peat yesterday. It has been left in the tank for about a month. There were many eggs, so many that I didn't even have to search for them. They were all over the peat.

    So maybe there are 2 kinds of velvet. One is fatal and the fish will die after a while. The other kind isn't so bad and you really don't have to do anything to eradicate it.

    Loh K L

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    Thanks KL, i have treated some fishes with Odi-mor before (your recommendation) and have good result.

    I found it most effective if the fishes were move to a separate hospital tank for the treatment as you have more control over the environment.

    Treating the fish:
    Use the medicine as per instruction. Odi-mor is quite safe, a little bit over dosage won't cause much harm to the fish.

    Conceal the plastic tank from any light source seems to help fishes winning the battle.

    Cutdown on feeding so that water won't turn bad so fast.

    No filter of anytype so that the medicine remain in the water longer.

    Resist the temptation of removing the fish from the treatment before 2 weeks is up. The fish won't last shall the velvet comes again. I lost the
    last female of Notho Rachovii Nicuadala in this incident.

    After two weeks. The velvet should be gone.

    Treating the tank: With all fishes/ snail remove from the tank for 2 weeks. Would kill velvet as there is no host for them to continue reproduction.

    I still have problem treating newborn fry that is not eating newborn BBS. They are so tiny that i can't tell what is the problem that they are having.
    As far as i can see, velvet doesn't affect fishes's appetite.

    Could it be parasite?

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    Quote Originally Posted by timebomb
    Just to let you all know -

    I never managed to get rid of the Velvet. The medication didn't work. It seems to help a bit but the velvet is still there. The fish don't seem the worse for it though. They are eating well and swimming about happily.

    I collected the peat yesterday. It has been left in the tank for about a month. There were many eggs, so many that I didn't even have to search for them. They were all over the peat.

    So maybe there are 2 kinds of velvet. One is fatal and the fish will die after a while. The other kind isn't so bad and you really don't have to do anything to eradicate it.

    Loh K L
    Hi KL,

    Velvet, no matter what strain or virulence, would eventually prove fatal if left untreated and the fish immunity succumbs.

    Like what Mark had said, besides using the approriate medication, the treatment modality is also important.It is important not to take your foot off the pedal prematurely, and remove medication before you ascertain that the protozoa is completely eradicated. For me, I'd usually medicate one more cycle even after I observe that no more of such parasites are present on the bodies of the fishes.

    Whether the fish succumbs or not, really depends on many factors, such as the fish's immunity, environmental factors favouring/adverse to the parasites, medication, etc. It is hard to pinpoint one factor as the single determinant of the prognosis of the disease.

    If everything else favours the proliferation of the parasites, then your fish would succumb quickly. Usually, the fish dies because of secondary bacterial sepsis and more often than not, respiratory failure due to the involvement of the breathing apparatus a.k.a the gills. Otherwise, in the initial stage, the fish would be able to continue to lead its normal life.

    I've never tolerated velvet, and even if it is just a few specks seen on the fins of the fish, I'd start medical treatment.

    Most of the time, my medicine of choice would be the FMC combo, which includes formaldehyde, malachite green and methylene blue. It sure helps alot, like what mark mentioned, to place the tank in complete darkness if you can. I'd still be collecting viable eggs using this treatment modality.

    I've recently used 0.3% copper sulphate, which I thought would be more potent. However, I did not collect eggs from those Nothos I treated, to be able to comment if there're any viable eggs at this dosage. I wonder if CuSO4 would be killing the spermatozoa before they can get to the ovum. This questioned was raised by a member of this forum to Dr Basleer, a renown icthyo-pathologist, but wasn't able to illicit a definite answer either.

    Cheers,

    Kenny

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    Hi Kenny, is your "C" refering to Cephalosprin (used for dropsy) treatment.

    FMC combo

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    Hi Mark,

    No, the C here actually stands for malachite green.Dun ask me why, you'd havo ask the guy who formulated the combo, Dr Basleer.

    Some of my vet friend also refer to it as MGF (Methylene blue, malachite green, formaldehyde).

    Wow, you guys use cephalosporin for dropsy?

    Cheers,

    Kenny

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    Hi Kenny,
    I have been searching in the web trying to find what is the "C" refering to.
    I found this solution for fixing Dropsy.

    Combination Gentamycin + Cephalosprin. (1cc through injection i think) After listening to some advice i think this should be left to to professional. Should keep Gentamycin for human use rather than fish. I hope these are under strick control as Gentamycin is develope and use on those situation that the bacteria are immune to other more common antibiotic.

    I heard there is a yellow colour medicine from Japan that can cure dropsy at its begining stage. Any idea what is that?

    Personally i am glad that i have not encounter Dropsy. At least not that i know of anyway. Else flushing them down the toilet would be my first choice. Unless Kenny don't mind do a little experiment on them.

    Thank you, KL. For bring this post up for us (newbie) to see. I took your very first advice and does quite well fixing velvet. And it is more idiot prove. More suitable for me.

    KH

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    Hi Mark,

    Dropsy is actually a syndrome, which emcompasses afew signs and symptoms, namely pop eye (exopthalmus), abdominal bloat (ascites) and protrusion of scales.

    All of these signs and symptoms are the results of accumulation of tissue fluid exudate and/or pus, as a result of an internal infection, usually of bacterial in nature.

    And yes, we should NOT try to use antibiotics frivolously, as this may encourage the proliferation of resistant strain of bacteria or organism, which may render the medication useless in time to come. Furthermore, with an internal infection like these, it is not very effective to just dose the water with the drug, but I'd rather give an intravenous administration to the fish. However, given the size of small fishes like killifishes or tetras, this is not very possible. A fish that displays these signs and symptoms would usuallybe in an advanced state of infection, and thus prognosis is poor.

    About the yellow powder, it is a chemotherapeutic medication called nifurpurinol, which belongs to the nitrofuran group of medication. It is rather effective against external bacterial infection and mild case of internal infection, but resistant strian of bacteria are reported to have developed against this drug as well.

    Cheers,

    Kenny

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    Thanks Kenny, KL. Learn a lot reading your post. I suggest we split another area for discussion related to fish disease/ pest control (hydra).

    So that everyone can seach throught these informative posting and find solution fast. Before the fish die.


    KH

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    Thanks for the tip, Kenny.

    I'm wondering if a combination of Odi-Mor from Aquarium Munster and Protozin from Waterlife would work. Or would it result in an overdose instead?

    Removing the fish to a hospital tank is the ideal method but I prefer to cure them in their tank so as not to have a relapse again. The books say the Velvet parasite, like the Ich parasite dies after a few days if it can't find a host but I don't believe that. I believe, in one way or another, the parasites are always in our tanks but they won't make an appearance until the time's ripe. It's just like the common cold. The germs are everywhere and you can't run from it.

    Loh K L

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