Digital Photography and Equipment

[Scott_sg]

I agree KL, the photos are not the best, I was using a friends HP R607 which seems ok but I seem to have trouble getting it to focus on what I want. I think it is probably me rather than the camera, I am a bit old fashioned that way and love an SLR with manual focus. But I will be purchasing a Digital camera (moving into the 21st century!) of my own soon, so I will play around with a few to see what I like best. I won't ask for recommendations though, camera wars are as bad as religious wars. Even 20 years ago the Canon - Nikon question was a sure way to start temper tantrums.

Anyway I hope the post will be helpful to people, there is no right way or wrong way to do these things, and if you ask me how I do it in a years time it will probably be different again, as I take other peoples ideas on board and adjust my own. But it does give some ideas on how to get started, and will hopefully give people having problems a base on which to work. There is nothing more frustrating in the hobby than to have a good hatch and then watch them all disappear in the first few days.

Scott

[Green Baron]

I agree KL, the photos are not the best, I was using a friends HP R607 which seems ok but I seem to have trouble getting it to focus on what I want. I think it is probably me rather than the camera, I am a bit old fashioned that way and love an SLR with manual focus. But I will be purchasing a Digital camera (moving into the 21st century!) of my own soon, so I will play around with a few to see what I like best. I won't ask for recommendations though, camera wars are as bad as religious wars. Even 20 years ago the Canon - Nikon question was a sure way to start temper tantrums.

Scott,
You will not go wrong if you go with either Canon or Nikon. ;-) If you are already using Nikon or Canon, the decison is even easier. The camera to avoid are those ultra thin high megapixels camera. They are expensive, difficult to hold and the images are very noisy. Anything above 3M is more than sufficient for general use.

[Green Baron]

Scott,
I meant Canon or Nikon consumer digicam, not DSLR.
The Canon Powershot A and S series and Nikon CoolPix series are all good consumer digicams.

[whuntley]

I respectfully disagree, Gan.

The early coolpix Nikons featured some truly awful lenses. I lusted for one of the 9xx series of swivel bodies, but quickly discovered their hideous lateral chromatic aberation and useless (for fish, children or other pets) shutter lag.

Nikon discovered early that consumers readily tolerated "purple fringing" and other image defects and that crisp focus wasn't demanded as long as colors were over-saturated, contrasty and looked gaudy.

As a result, the pics I took with my DSC D770 Sony were considerably sharper and more free of aberations (at 1.5MP) than the Coolpix 990 at 3.2 MP! I could fool 35mm film experts with 8X10 prints into thinking they were from film. You could never, ever, do that with any early coolpix shot.

A camera is a system, and it needs all parts working at near the same level for optimum results. Consumers got caught in a MP-hype marketing trap and were willing to put up with garbage in lenses and software that in no way could match the number of pixels in their sensor.

Carefully check the resolution and noise reports on the review sites, like dpreview.com before choosing any camera. Also check shutter lag unless you really like pics of fish tails.

I went through 3 other digital cameras before finding the Sonys. It wasn't until more modern cameras like my Canon S1 IS came along that 3.2MP cameras could actually make a better pic than those old Sonys. Higher pixel counts are still a big waste if you try to use film-design lenses in a DSLR (they really need telecentric lenses) or if you are not making poster-size prints. 10MP sounds nice, but it is slower, takes more memory, and doesn't do a thing to improve pics to show on a web site.

You can't even use it to crop more, if the lens wasn't providing pixel-level resolution, and very few consumer lenses can actually do that!

Wright
An old medium-format photographer/optical engineer, who still has his 4X5 Speed Graphic!

[whuntley]

Yes SIR! Mr. moderator.

Don't forget, the "G" in RGB is for "green."

Wright

[ruyle]

Whew, Wright, that was a close one!
Those thread police guys are a mean bunch. Officer Chen could've written
you a ticket, but instead, is probably writing one for me right now!

Bill

[Green Baron]

Jian Yang,
Can you split the thread on photography out.

I have owned 3 Coolpix, 3 Sony and a Canon and I can share with you a bit about my experience with these cameras.

[stormhawk]

Here's a ticket for Wright and Bill too.

Okay so I've split the photography discussion out into this thread as requested by GanCW. This will be the thread for any photography related issues, be it equipment reviews or how to take great pics of that lightning fast fish.

Rather than to create a whole new subforum just for photography.. which I am contemplating, lets just stick to this thread for now.

[Green Baron]

Wright,
I agree that we should not judge a camera by its MP. More pixels could translate to just more noise ! I have photos taken with 1.3MP Sony DSC S30 which are very sharp and clean, much cleaner than some of the current generation of 5MP consumer cameras.

I'll trade a 8MP consumer digicam CCD for the Canon 3MP CMOS sensor anytime !

The quality of a digital image is affected by many factors - the lens, the CCD, the software in the camera, lighting condition and of course the technique and person taking the photo.

I never had problem with purple fringing because I seldom take backlit subjects. Also, unless you plan to print anything bigger than 5R, purple fringing is usually not an issue. The other problem is sometimes we tend to over scrutinise the details when viewing photo on computer. In reality, people usually focus more on the composition and subject than details and sharpness when viewing prints.

The CoolPix series has very good close focusing capability but the flash is useless. I took lots of closeup picture of butterfly egg, caterpillar and butterfly with this camera before I bought a DSLR.

Shutter lag is always an issue with all consumer digicams, not just the CoolPix. However, once you get used to it, you learn to adapt to it and it is not a big deal. Practice shooting butterfly and you will have no problem shooting fish or children

As for Sony, I find the SXX and FXXX series to be very good, much better than the P, W and U series. The F717 is my favorite all purpose camera for shooting nature subjects as well as travel photos.

[hwchoy]

much depends on how you intend to use the resulting photographs. many people simply want to capture and image and share it at web size and screen resolution. no problem at all with digicams.

but if you want to view at 100% for all the fine details, then you can never compare a digicam to a proper DSLR, for no other reason than that we are not make apples-to-apples comparison. The sensor on a digicam is a fraction the size of that on a DSLR, while sporting the same pixel-count. the optics on a digicam is never as good, even if they sport the red band, capital L brand, etc vs the number of changeable lens on a DSLR.

I think I am quite qualified to make a statement, having milked the last drop out of a G5 digicam but is now faced with the hard option of doling the moolahs for a DSLR.

[keehoe]

Wright,
I agree that we should not judge a camera by its MP. More pixels could translate to just more noise ! I have photos taken with 1.3MP Sony DSC S30 which are very sharp and clean, much cleaner than some of the current generation of 5MP consumer cameras.

I'll trade a 8MP consumer digicam CCD for the Canon 3MP CMOS sensor anytime !

The quality of a digital image is affected by many factors - the lens, the CCD, the software in the camera, lighting condition and of course the technique and person taking the photo.

I never had problem with purple fringing because I seldom take backlit subjects. Also, unless you plan to print anything bigger than 5R, purple fringing is usually not an issue. The other problem is sometimes we tend to over scrutinise the details when viewing photo on computer. In reality, people usually focus more on the composition and subject than details and sharpness when viewing prints.

The CoolPix series has very good close focusing capability but the flash is useless. I took lots of closeup picture of butterfly egg, caterpillar and butterfly with this camera before I bought a DSLR.

Shutter lag is always an issue with all consumer digicams, not just the CoolPix. However, once you get used to it, you learn to adapt to it and it is not a big deal. Practice shooting butterfly and you will have no problem shooting fish or children

As for Sony, I find the SXX and FXXX series to be very good, much better than the P, W and U series. The F717 is my favorite all purpose camera for shooting nature subjects as well as travel photos.

Gan, How you take macro photo of butterfly without a SLR tele-macro lense? Wouldn't you frighten the little beauty?

I think a good tripod, 7 to 10k temperature permanant light with slow shuttle speed brings the best picture.

Of course, most importantly a cooperative fish is a must. For that, tele-macro lense works wonder (in theory) as the live subject remain calm and undisturbed.

Would love to see comments from those who is using this kind of equipment.

[hwchoy]

I think a good tripod, 7 to 10k temperature permanant light with slow shuttle speed brings the best picture.

Of course, most importantly a cooperative fish is a must. For that, tele-macro lense works wonder (in theory) as the live subject remain calm and undisturbed.

keehoe I don't understand your statement. you mention "permanent light with slow shuttle speed" and then "a cooperative fish".

I know of very few fishes (besides dead ones) that stay still enough to get good picture at low shutter speed (assuming you mean around 1/15s). other than suckers and suck, most other fishes does not stay still plus their gills will be flapping and fins will waving.

[stormhawk]

The CoolPix series has very good close focusing capability but the flash is useless. I took lots of closeup picture of butterfly egg, caterpillar and butterfly with this camera before I bought a DSLR.

Shutter lag is always an issue with all consumer digicams, not just the CoolPix. However, once you get used to it, you learn to adapt to it and it is not a big deal. Practice shooting butterfly and you will have no problem shooting fish or children

Gan, well said. The Coolpix series indeed has good close focusing capabilities. I get good results with my macro function on and with double-flash. A single flash, coupled with a dirty glass ends up producing less than desirable photographs.

I've more or less gotten the hang of my Coolpix 3100 and I know how to play around with it enough to get a decent shot most of the time. Haven't tried on butterflies yet..

[stormhawk]

I know of very few fishes (besides dead ones) that stay still enough to get good picture at low shutter speed (assuming you mean around 1/15s). other than suckers and suck, most other fishes does not stay still plus their gills will be flapping and fins will waving.

I don't know about low shutter speed but most of my killies stay in one position long enough for me too get a decent shot. Fins will naturally wave about, especially the pectorals, but that doesn't pose a problem for me. They just seem to remain still in most shots that come out.

[hwchoy]

I don't know about low shutter speed but most of my killies stay in one position long enough for me too get a decent shot. Fins will naturally wave about, especially the pectorals, but that doesn't pose a problem for me. They just seem to remain still in most shots that come out.

I thought you use flash right? that will give you at least 1/60s which is good enough to freeze a swimming fish.

1/15s will start to suffer from handshake even.

[stormhawk]

I usually use flash because when I don't use it, my shaky hands always cause shaky pictures. You probably have a point there. My 3100 gets decent shots when the flash is on, somehow it makes the CCD work faster? I get focusing faster when flash is on, even in insufficient light.

I don't know the shutter speed for this camera. All I know is the settings are what I followed when I obtained it. Probably factory-set.

Best part about this camera is that I found it works decently even in total darkness, with only a torchlight for illumination. I use this to capture the shy fishes while they are resting.

[ruyle]

Has anyone seen the Sony Cybershot DSC-R1 available in SG? It's a fairly
large camera that is the latest in an impressive line of pro digicams. Has
12MP and a sensor that looks 4 times as large as its predecessor, the 828,
but retains the manual zoom and focus rings on the lens barrel. It is being
offered in the US for $995 and has a Carl Zeiss lens.

It's a few years off, but it's my next upgrade.

Bill

[stormhawk]

I think this model should be available in SG by now. Need to check to confirm.

[Green Baron]

Gan, How you take macro photo of butterfly without a SLR tele-macro lense? Wouldn't you frighten the little beauty?

Kee Hoe,
You will be surprised to learn that when I was using the CoolPix, the camera is usally not more than 10 cm away from the subject !
It is a matter of knowing the subject behaviour, how to approach them and patience.

Now I use DSLR with 90mm macro lens onlt because DSLR gives cleaner picture and the focusing is faster.

I think a good tripod, 7 to 10k temperature permanant light with slow shuttle speed brings the best picture.

Of course, most importantly a cooperative fish is a must. For that, tele-macro lense works wonder (in theory) as the live subject remain calm and undisturbed.

Would love to see comments from those who is using this kind of equipment.

When I was breeding caterpillar and using the CoolPix, I use 3 lamps from Ikea to illuminate the subject. The advantage of using 'permanent light' is it is like taking under natural light. WYSIWYG. The disadvantage is it is not as bright as flash light and it can get pretty hot. I assume you can have similar setup taking fishes but you will need much stronger light, e.g MH. it will be easier to just use multiple flashes.

With DSLR and 90mm macro, I usually try to shoot above 1/100s, especially if you are taking the fish in the tank with filter running. Sometimes I turn off the filter when taking photos.

[Green Baron]

Has anyone seen the Sony Cybershot DSC-R1 available in SG? It's a fairly
large camera that is the latest in an impressive line of pro digicams. Has
12MP and a sensor that looks 4 times as large as its predecessor, the 828,
but retains the manual zoom and focus rings on the lens barrel. It is being
offered in the US for $995 and has a Carl Zeiss lens.

It's a few years off, but it's my next upgrade.

Bill

Bill,
I have been following the Sony SLR like prosumer range as I used to own a 707, now a 717. The 828 looks nice from the outside but the image is not as clean as the 717. What differentiates the R1 from its competitors is the APS size CMOS sensor. 828 has a 8.8x6.6mm sensor ( 2.7 µm pixel pitch) while R1 has 21.5x14.4mm ( 5.49 µm pixel pitch) CMOS sensor. This translater to much cleaner image and allow you to use higher ISO speed.

However, for $999 and that size, you might be better off getting a true DSLR from Nikon (D50) or Canon (350D), which provides more options for expansion and a large range lenses and accessories (original and compatible) to choose from.