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Thread: Pseudomugil furcatus and Marosatherina ladigesi aggressive?

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    Pseudomugil furcatus and Marosatherina ladigesi aggressive?

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    dear all,

    these fish have just recently begun to appear in LFS in Italy, and while many people are drawn to them because of their lovely finnage and colours, very little is known about them, and specifically about their disposition toward tankmates. now a lady I know just bought 2 pairs of P. furcatus and 1 pair of M. ladigesi and placed them together in a densely planted tank. soon, she observed a lot of fighting between the two species and among the furcatus. it seems more a territorial thing than feeding competition, because she says things have since calmed down a bit, and that feeding the fish did not seem to trigger aggression (she spread out the food evenly on the water surface to make sure every one got their bit though).

    now both P. furcatus and M. ladigesi get the generic 'peaceful schooling fish' label pretty much everywhere, but the experience of some of you seems to suggest otherwise. in a private conversation Jianyang told me furcatus are usually more aggressive than gertrudae for instance. he also mentioned Ron once had these fish and noticed they were aggressive. could Ron or anyone else who had these fish recount their experiences? are these fish actually aggressive under certain conditions? what apparently triggers attacks and what works in keeping the aggression level low? my friend started a thread in the italian boards but we hardly have any answers to her questions, so your posts will be much appreciated by many. thanks for your help,

    francesco

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    Re: Pseudomugil furcatus and Marosatherina ladigesi aggressi

    Hi Francesco,
    I am presently breeding two Pseudomugil species, namely; P. gertrudae and P. signifer. Used to keep P. furcatus and the Celebes rainbow (Marosatherina ladigesi) and from personal experience, they can really bicker amongst themselves and closely related (or similar looking) tankmates like the P. signifier.

    However, it is during such times that one can observe males sparring and displaying their finnage but in a community tank with more peaceful and slower growing fishes, like the Clown killie, their almost-non-stop harassment can cause alot of stress.

    Like Zebra fish (or danios species), there seems little we can do to curb their hyper-speed activities except provide ample tank space and more turbulent water movement. They will bicker less when well fed and contented but the only time they don't "fight" is when I switch off the lights!

    Oh... and don't believe everything you read. The "peaceful" label is very subjective, as in, "I might not kill you but I'll probably harass you to death"
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Ron,
    thank you very much for your reply. my friend will be instructed accordingly . she intends to move the fish to a larger tank later (she is now raising angelfish fry in it). in the meantime, she'll be feeding the furcatus and the ladigesi well and keeping a close eye on them. they have stopped fighting for now, probably because territories have been established, but you never know.

    it's interesting what you said about 'peaceful' being a very subjective notion. yes, I have always been suspicious of the 'peaceful' label applied to pretty much any fish that is not obviously large and nasty/predative looking. I see now that it also varies a lot according to where you are from: you mentioned zebra fish. here in italy, any beginner who wanted unaggressive cyprinids for the community tank would be invariably told to try the 'peaceful' Brachydanio, as opposed to let's say, Barbus tetrazona.

    I hope you won't mind another request: I was thrilled when I read you are keeping the signifer. they are by far my favourite rainbows and one of my favorite of all fish species (and my nickname and avatar in the italian boards ). trouble is, nobody keeps them here, let alone sell them. I am desperate to see them in italy any time soon. so I would love it if you could tell me something more about their care and breeding when you have time. I did a bit of reading myself but you know nothing beats first hand experience. and..I hate to sound rude, but do you believe that signifer eggs could ship well? it's far too cold now, but if you are still keeping them by next spring and they are breeding, I would pay the earth for a batch of eggs, or trade for anything you might need from europe. I've been drooling over those fishies so long.

    thanks again,

    francesco

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    Quote Originally Posted by dageti
    ...but if you are still keeping them by next spring and they are breeding, I would pay the earth for a batch of eggs, or trade for anything you might need from europe
    James Bond said, "The world is not enough" but then again, you don't have to pay through your nose for signifier eggs either.

    Honestly, I used to be very gung ho in sending things out but after stumbling over a few blocks of red tapes, I'm more careful before saying "no problem". Find out what you can regarding eggs-in-post and get back to me.

    Francesco, I wanted to show you some pics of the signifer but as Gan found out (with his furcatus), these fellas are fast and their highly reflective sheen makes phototaking a real pain. Their beauty and colors are very subtle and with flash photography from point-and-shoot digital cameras, the details are very washed out.

    P. signifer are at their best just before meal times, when they'll all gather up front and flaring their finnage. At other times, they're just too 'lazy' to show off like in Adrian's page.

    For now, the gertrudae are doing it like rabbits but oddly, nothing from the signifer (lots of snails in their mop though ) Moved the entire lot over to another breeding tank and let's see if I get anything viable.

    Water incubation period for most Pseudomugil species is 6~10days at 29ēC, so Express Air is best, with about 10 eggs to each breathable bag.

    Let's see if I can shoot a short video clip instead...
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Ron,

    thanks for your reply. I understand you have good reasons for being more cautious about sending eggs than in the past. I know it can be a real pain when buraucracy stands in the way, so I do appreciate you 'leaving an open door', as we say in italy. I'll come back to you when the cold is over and get information on shipping in the meantime.



    this is the picture that got me madly in love with the signifer in the first place. (for reasons maybe best left unexplained, I've always been a sucker for fish with long pointed fins: chromaphyos, Iriatherina, angelfish etc). I agree that they have a subtler beauty compared to other rainbows, but they're still the loveliest of all to me.

    I know something about photographing fish and frustration. I've tried to learn as much as I could from the photography threads in the forum but I still have a long way to go with my Coolpix 4500. and fish are so uncooperative. my blue rainbows Melanotaenia praecox would not stand still for a second as I tried to take pics, so I opted for a movie to document the chasing and displaying of fins. of course, as soon as I switched the camera to video mode, they formed a lovely tight shoal and stood perfectly still until I was done filming, right under the front lights that best capture their metallic colours.

    francesco

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    Francesco, you mentioned Barbus tetrazona. Want to point out that it is generally accepted usage that Barbus is for use with European and African cyprinid groups while Asian ones are generally assigned to the genus Puntius. Note that none of these are monophyletic (i.e. they are not related to a common ancestor) hence more revision is required.

    For southeast Asian barbs, a number of species have been assigned to their own genus for example the tetrazona is recognised under Systomus for having several common traits such as a serrated dorsal spine. Things vary depending on the schools of thought but definitely asian barbs should be named under Puntius.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona ˇ crumenatum ˇ Galleria Botanica

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    All my family members love the Pseudomugil furcatus ! I went back to the LFS hoping to get a few more furcatus but alas there were none left :-( I ended up getting P. gertrudae relunctantly. Now I am really glad I got the gertrudae as they are actually quite pretty after they acclimatised to my tank.

    I'll try to take some photos of the gertrudae this weekend but no promise as they are really active. It will be easier to photograph them in a photo tank but I am too lazy to do that so I'll just have to be patience.

    The Pseudomugil and Melanotaenia are great show fish for planted tank. My 3 ft tank has stabilised and with the addition of these rainbow fish, the tank is now a conversation piece whenever I have visitors.
    This is how my tank look like after I rescape it in October.


    I am still looking for a few more P. furcatus. Anybody who which LFS has this fish ?

    Ronnie,
    Where did you get the P. signifer ? I would like to get a few of this fish as well !
    If you are into Nature, check out the new NSS Nature Forum.
    See my Nature photos and Butterfly Blog

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    Gan, Try the two fish shop along havelock road near 河水山 community center. "xxxxxx engineering" might have that.
    KeeHoe.

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