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Thread: Mystery Microsorum

  1. #1
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    Mystery Microsorum

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    Hello Loh Kwek Leong

    I've visited this forum in the past, but this is my first post. Hi! You may remember me from a few years ago when you kindly sent out samples of narrow leaf Microsorum in exchange for APD defense fund donations.

    You've been very helpful in the past in helping with moss IDs, so I thought you might be able to help here as well.

    I received a very unusual Microsorum from another AGA member here who said he got it from you when you were sending that stuff out.

    In brief, it is narrower than normal Microsorum pteropus but has abundant and very visible sori. Instead of appearing very infrequently and randomly over the bottom of the leaf as in pteropus, the sori are arranged in neat rows along either side of the midrib. Please see the link for a photo (I cannot insert an image for some reason).

    http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/g...hp?i=2781&c=22

    As I understand it, this is probably a species characteristic. New leaves have sori that are at first white but later mature and turn a dark brown. It is really quite distinctive. It is as easy to grow as the usual kind.

    Any assistance in identifying it would be much appreciated. I would be more than happy to send you a sample if that would help.

    Thank you, Cavan Allen

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    Is it just me or everyone has to sign in to view the picture in the link? I was registering to be a member, but it reminded me that I'm already a member--I forgot I joined that forum in the past.

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    Cant see the picture but narrow M. pteropus can be ssen at Torpica´s page. Check both Microsorum pteropus ''Narrow'' and Microsorum pteropus ''Philippine''.
    http://www.tropica.com/default.asp

    /Pär Jansson

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    Welcome to Killies.com, Cavan.

    It's been a long time. I can't remember ever sending any plants to you but your name sounds familiar.

    During the days when I was helping out the APD defense fund, I sent many bags of Christmas Moss and Narrow Leaf Java Fern to donors of the fund. The plants were mostly taken from my tanks. When I ran out, I had help from a close friend. Edward gave me a big bag of mosses and ferns when I needed more. It could be, that the ferns from Edward were different from those in my tanks but at that time, I never thought there could be a different species so I never bothered to check.

    I can't see the picture in your link, Cavan. I can upload it to this thread for you if you send it to me by email.

    I'm not sure if the professor can help in this instance but besides being a bryologist, he's also a botanist. I'm sure he would know a thing or 2 about ferns. If we can gather all the aquatic ferns in the market, it would be a great project to identify all of them.

    Loh K L

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    Quote Originally Posted by froo
    Cant see the picture but narrow M. pteropus can be ssen at Torpica´s page. Check both Microsorum pteropus ''Narrow'' and Microsorum pteropus ''Philippine''.
    http://www.tropica.com/default.asp

    /Pär Jansson
    I have both of those and I can assure you that it is definitely neither of them. However, it is most similar in size and shape to the 'Philippine' (but larger).

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    I can't see the picture in your link, Cavan. I can upload it to this thread for you if you send it to me by email.
    Done. I write species profile articles for TAG (most recently Rotala ramosior). That's probably the only way you've heard my name since then. But I have remembered you and your generosity as well as how helpful you've been.

    Thanks in advance, Cavan

    PS I agree that a fern project would be of great interest!

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    Quote Originally Posted by timebomb
    If we can gather all the aquatic ferns in the market, it would be a great project to identify all of them.

    Loh K L
    This is an excellent idea! I love ferns and it’s one of my favorite aquarium plants. To me, it’s easier to grow than mosses. I hope this project be successful as the moss project.

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    A recent issue of Aqualife magazine revealed that there are 21 kinds of java ferns!!!

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    Okay, folks, this is the picture Cavan sent:



    If not for the rather unusual arrangement of the sori (sometimes known as sporangia), I would say it's a normal Java Fern (Microsorum pteropus).

    Cavan said he got the fern from a fellow AGA member who said he got the plant from me. To be honest, I don't remember ever having such a fern in my tanks, let alone send one out.

    There are, as Joe pointed out, many kinds of Java Ferns in the aquaria scene but it could be there are only a few species. A different appearance (form) alone isn't enough for a fern to be classified as a different species. For instance, there's a Microsorum pteropus, a Microsorum pteropus "Tropica" and a Microsorum pteropus "Windelov". I'm no botanist but I'm aware that as far as science is concerned, these 3 are one and the same species. In fact, chances are the "Narrow Leaf" and the "Philippine" Java Ferns are also Microsorum pteropus.

    In such a scenario, I don't think the professor can help us much. If I bring all 5 ferns to him, he would probably tell me they are all the same species. The professor cannot tell a difference in "form". Or rather, he can see they are different but he wouldn't know what "form" is which. Only hobbyists like us who grow the plants in our tanks know what "form" are they. Let me give you an example:

    There are at least 2 different kinds of Riccia fluitans in the aquaria scene. There's the normal Riccia fluitans which we all know and there's a mini R. fluitans. I brought both to the professor and he said they are both the same species. When I told him the latter is always much smaller, he said that in such a case, the mini R. fluitans could be known as Riccia fluitans "Dwarf form". But other than that, we can't say it's a different species.

    By the way, I thought Cavan made an error with the scientific name of the Java Fern so I ran a check. It seems Cavan is right and I was wrong all along. Microsorum should be spelled without an "i". 2 of my aquatic plant books, "Oriental's Aquarium Plant Catalogue" and "The Book of Water Plants" published in the Netherlands spelled "Microsorum" as "Microsorium". They are both incorrect. Obviously, Cavan who writes species profile articles for TAG, knows his stuff

    Loh K L

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    That looks more or less like the normal Java Fern. The black spots probably will lead to plantlets growing out from them.

    Check this recent question on AQ http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...678#post167678

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    Quote Originally Posted by damnit
    That looks more or less like the normal Java Fern. The black spots probably will lead to plantlets growing out from them.

    Check this recent question on AQ http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...678#post167678
    It does look a lot like normal java fern, but it isn't. In Kasselmann, she writes on page 363 that "sori without undusia, isolated, sometimes adnate, irregular on the leaf undersides....".

    Those are not irregular. I've kept the plant for over two years and it has never grown a plantlet from one of the sori. I don't know if that's even possible. I don't know what it is, but I know it's not pteropus.

    I'll point out too that black spots on leaves from which new plants grow are not the same thing as sori.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timebomb
    There are, as Joe pointed out, many kinds of Java Ferns in the aquaria scene but it could be there are only a few species. A different appearance (form) alone isn't enough for a fern to be classified as a different species. For instance, there's a Microsorum pteropus, a Microsorum pteropus "Tropica" and a Microsorum pteropus "Windelov". I'm no botanist but I'm aware that as far as science is concerned, these 3 are one and the same species. In fact, chances are the "Narrow Leaf" and the "Philippine" Java Ferns are also Microsorum pteropus.
    Has anyone ever grow any of the different Microsorum emersed in an attempt to get sori for identification? As far as I know, no.

    Too add to the confusion, look here. It has the narrow leaf listed as M. brassii.

    http://www.lucidcentral.org/keys/APP...icrosorum.html

    Do you know of any fern experts?

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    Cavan, I don't know of any fern experts. I'm surprised Tropica lists the Narrow Leaf as M. brassii.

    The next time I meet the professor, I'll ask him if he's interested in doing a fern identification. In the meantime, if you can, send me a leaf or 2 of the fern you have.

    Loh K L

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    Tropica doesn't list it as brassii. That's lucidcentral. Sean Winterton runs that one. He was a speaker at the 2003 AGA if I remember correctly.

    Please PM me your address and instructions on how to send it to you (I don't do international shipments all that much).

    Thanks, Cavan

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    any news on the brassii?

    I have it growing ever so slowly.


    does anyone have pictures of it?

    I'd love to see it in a tank, instead of a specimen picture.

    Loh?
    Kindest Regards,

    Martin

    'Tis a great world underneath the sea'

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