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Thread: Sunfish

  1. #1
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    Sunfish

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    Hi Joseph & Rahul,
    I think Wright's all excited about his trip and probably overlooked that Rahul is not picking up the sunfishes in SG, definitely not a stone's throw away from LA, and these buggers are with me now.

    The Elassoma evergladei (Everglades Pygmy Sunfish) are fine. I took quick shots after acclimatizing them to my water and the pair(?), although small, are already snacking on my Cherry shrimplets! (don't worry, these are intended to be part of the food chain).

    Elassoma evergladei??


    Dim hideaway. Perfect for the shy and hiding male

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Enneacanthus gloriosus (Blue Spotted Sunfish) didn't start off as well. One of them was trapped in the folds of the plastic bag and I failed to revive it... didn't make it <sorry>

    Smaller specimen TKO'ed.

    The other survivor is now in it's own tank with Crystal Red shrimps, looking contented albeit for a mate (I'm hoping these fellas won't grow too big)


    It's my first time with this type of fish and will need to read up some. Any experience shared will make for a shorter learning curve and thanks to Jian Yang for his links;
    Elassoma evergladei - Everglades Pygmy Sunfish
    Enneacanthus gloriosus - Blue Spotted Sunfish

    Ooh and do correct me if I've confused the names.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    I believe it was Rahul's intention for these to get established in SG and then he could come by later some time.

    Sorry to here about the smaller gloriosus! I suppose if anyone every is leaving from the US sometime soon we could send some more in. I just have to hope that pair obliges me with babies again. Treat him/her sort of like a coldwater cichlid and you will be fine, they are tough fish. Probably want to watch the heat though. If it is a male before long it will start developing lots of blue spots. They get pretty big. I think he will eat the shrimp when he gets older, I feed the adults mainly red wiggler worms, chopped usually but they can take bait sized ones.

    Male



    The Elassoma tank looks great! They love hiding amongst fine leaved plants like Najas. The fry(very tiny) are either cannabalistic or otherwise just starve each other out so you usually can't raise many in a small tank. Btw, those fish are quite young and that is not maximum size or color. The male will grow to be a impressive fish(I think mine passed the 1 inch mark)...jet black with irridescent sparkles(better than the photos in the link posted). If you have access to a chiller you might want to play with that, but they seem to pretty much breed themselves. Just start adding in BBS when you see the male courting the female. I think theirs a chance the cherry shrimp might become a permanent food supply but daphnia, brine shrimp of all sizes, and blackworms are taken eagerly. When you get young I'd give them BBS daily. Should be pretty easy, but in the top photo the male is on the right. Outside of breeding condition, they have darker fins, more "sparkles" on their sides, and longer fins, particularly the pelvic fins.

    HTH
    ~Joseph

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    The Elassoma should feel right at home in that tank, Ron. Hope they do well for you. Bummer about the Enneacanthus. I guess you can fatten up the survivor and give him to Choy to play with :P

    Did the Pachypanchax make it over safely?

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro_gk
    I guess you can fatten up the survivor and give him to Choy to play with :P
    you make it sound so kinky

    are they jumpers? I am afraid to take any fishes that will hide or jump before I could get any good shots!
    I can't take much more of Ronnie's ponytail lashing.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    That correct Ron. The first pair are the Elassoma, and the other pair are the Enneacanthus.

    One problem, the Elassoma might be another species, and maybe not the evergladei. There's a few more Elassoma species:

    Elassoma alabamae
    Elassoma boelhkei
    Elassoma evergladei
    Elassoma okatie
    Elassoma okefenokee
    Elassoma zonatum


    You can probably rule zonatum out, but okefenokee does look like evergladei.

    I think Wright didn't bring any Pachypanchax .sp "Betsiboka" with him this time round. If he did, we'd have seen them in the pics of the gathering. :P
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

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    They are evergladei, at least according to range. They were collected near Myakka State Park in a ditch(the county does not come to me). I actually have a map that estimates approximately where they were caught. Okefenokee I believe have blue margins on the fins which these evergladei lack.

    Hwchoy: I've never seen them jump, and have kept them in places like open buckets that gave them more than ample opportunity to jump out. They are pretty shy though, so it could be a challenge to get good shots. Food helps alot though.
    ~Joseph

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    Thanks for the confirmation Joseph. I forgot that you caught these and sent them to Wright before he left.

    Have you bred them before? I think they're probably similar in habits to the Scarlet Badis, Dario dario.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

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    Joseph,
    Judging from the size of the Enneacanthus, I doubt it'd stick around with me for very long (it's like a good 4inches!!) but it will fatten up before heading for Choy's pond!

    From your Elassoma description and that of Aquarticles.com (it's you, isn't it??), I think both Jian Yang and myself sensed the same, that these were like Dario dario/Scarlet Badis. In that case, I already know what I'm in for

    To draw them out, I've gotten a small group of Paedocypris progenetica and adding them later when I return home. Will update how these two species cohabitate.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by stormhawk
    I think Wright didn't bring any Pachypanchax .sp "Betsiboka" with him this time round. If he did, we'd have seen them in the pics of the gathering. :P

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    Jianyang: I didn't catch these, but someone else did, these two are offspring of the original fish..I think they are F3(wrong side of the country to find them myself).

    Ron: Yep, that was a summing up of my experiences. I doubt they are as hard as badis though...and I think Badis show parental care which I have not observed in these. Actually, I've never seen any eggs from them either, but it appears they are deposited in the plants like killies. It will be interesting to see how the two species coinhabit and whether you get fry from both.

    On the Ennecanthus, that male is pretty old, so it will take a while to get to that size. They first spawned in a 10 gallon and I guess they were around 3.5 then.
    ~Joseph

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    Good luck Ron, seems you have your work cut out for you. Tiny fry.. again!

    Joseph, did you happen to get these off Aquabid? I've seen some fellas offer these and the okefenokee on Aquabid before. It's a pity we don't see these little guys more often here in this region. They seem to be a wonderful bunch of tiny fishes to keep and breed.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

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    Joseph, I've spawned the Darios a while back and no, they have no sense of parental care. It wasn't fun raising the fry either; tiny slivers taking ages to grow out and don't take well to prepared foods. I had about 300 of these, in various stages of maturity and had to clear all of them from a 4ft tank. Recall Rashid oggling at some well-conditioned females that looked like they swallowed a ping-pong ball!

    The Elassoma is enjoying their tubifex breakfast, even though it has to struggle to get just one worm into their gut! In contrast, the bee shrimp I introduced, together with the Paedocypris progenetica, is bigger. Interesting mix, I think.

    Incidentally, the male has colored beautifully and in the dim setting, his sparkles are quite a sight!
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Jianyang: Nope. They were offered on a forum and I managed to work out a trade with the seller. I would love to give okefenokee a shot.

    How long is forever to grow out? With Elassoma, you might as well forget about prepared foods. I have not tried, but I'm betting prepared food would be worthless as the fry are very much visual hunters and stalk and attack the baby brine shrimp. They don't eat much, so feeding once a day works. They did get to the size of being able to take small blackworms and whatnot in a few months though. Since I left them with the adults and kept the tank dirty with lots of plants I found them pretty easy to raise. The parents tend to produce the fry in batches of 20(which, in my 2 gallon tanks, would dwindle to about a dozen by the time they were sexable). Once the fry are looking like mini adults if you want more fry it seems necessary to remove them...either they cannabalize or their presence and overcrowding stops spawning activity of the adults(I think it is more of the latter).

    Since you are in Sg and it stays warm, after hatching the brine shrimp...try getting a 5 gallon bucket and dumping the leftover brinewater in there. This works for me to raise enough brineshrimp to treat my fish occasionally, and the Elassoma will go nuts for them. I think their favorite food is mosquito larvae...but I doubt you guys can do that without getting in trouble with neighbors. Good to hear the male is now coloring up!
    ~Joseph

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    Joseph,
    What you said about Elassoma fry applies to Scarlet Badis. They rather chase down jerking daphnia and yes, as fry, they are not competitive eaters. Also, no mozzies please. I've enough trouble with the estate management and don't really need them to clamp down on me.

    Anyway, here's the camera-shy couple. Best shot of the female all morning. She darts for cover everytime I try to focus on her but at least she's looking plumb.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A more confident gloriosus after a tubbie meal. However, I suspect he's been snacking on my CRS shrimplets

    Choy, when do you want to collect and shoot more pics? [Rahul, we were thinking alike ]

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some pics of the Paedocypris progenetica, companions to the Elassoma and according to the Natural History Museum, it's said to be the "world's smallest vertebrate or backboned animal". These are supposed to be adults already and yet, much smaller than the Cherry shrimp in the background.

    If you can see their tummies, it's pink from a good meal of freeze-dried decapped BS eggs but still, I won't enjoy raising their even-tinier fry! Forgive the incorrect colors since the water is very tannic and I don't have time to fiddle with Photoshop.



    All clickable pics. Enjoy!
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Pachypanchax?

    Oh, FOO!

    I thought they were for the ESP Special Initiative and the KCC maintenance program. I completely forgot they were for SG!

    My memory is still my second-shortest thing. [I need to get a better PDA and take more notes. My old Palm III is so clunky I hardly ever use it any more. ]

    My sincere apologies to all concerned. As soon as I get some mops in with them and can collect enough eggs in a short-enough time, I'll send some eggs to SG. I can hand-carry to LA or SF, so they don't face my freezing weather.

    I should try for both the "Betsiboka" and sakaramyi. No?

    Wright

    PS. Still suffering considerable jet lag, or, to use the proper scientific description, my biorhythms are still discombobulated. Longer note in the trip thread when I have recovered a bit more.
    01 760 872-3995
    805 Valley West Circle
    Bishop, CA 93514 USA

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by whuntley
    I should try for both the "Betsiboka" and sakaramyi. No?
    Oooo.... pwweety! The sakaramyi is a real looker! Quick go get that mop!

    BTW, what is "FOO"? Not adult-theme, I hope
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    OK Ronnie,

    I'll get to work on both. The "Betsiboka" looked starved, after my trip, so it will take a bit of conditioning to get eggs, I suspect. The others are skinny, too.

    "FOO" is a generic word when you DON'T want to swear. Frequently used by programmers as a generic null device, as in *.foo , or FOO.TXT.

    Wright
    01 760 872-3995
    805 Valley West Circle
    Bishop, CA 93514 USA

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    Good luck trying to get a photo Ron. I've spent hours and they are very camera shy. They will be out and about and even looking at you for food but the minute the camera comes out they will go and hide.

    Those Paedocypris look pretty cool...wonder if we will ever have them in the US.

    You guys want a challenge? This is one of the best photos I've gotten of a male Elassoma evergladei. Mind you this is a small one(smaller than Rons) so he was cooperative somewhat. The big one would never let me photograph him which is sad as he was gorgeous.

    ~Joseph

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    No worries, Wright. The folks in SG will just have to wait a bit longer :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonWill
    Choy, when do you want to collect and shoot more pics? [Rahul, we were thinking alike ]
    some how I have not been receiving post notices from killies.com
    well I am now sitting at T2 waiting for my flight to BKK. Hopefully I get some time to at what's on sale at Jatujak.

    As for the fish models, now that the Great Hall no longer opens late, how do you want to hand over the cutie? I will be back by Wednesday.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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