Request for Comments/Advise on Tank Setup

[craftsman]

Er. Ronnie/polyart was/is using gravel. If you intend to use ADA soil and such for apisto, it will breakdown, clog the gap/filter floss = flood.

Ck, I'm not going to use ADA soil. might just use inert gravel or pebbles, or if its possible, avoid substrates altogether.

If you could use a solenoid or drip from the water reservoir and overflow to drain, you essentially do not need to do any water changes or recycle the water or need complicated filter system at all, Sponge filter is good enough to maintain water movement and quality. If you go to the extend of adding an overflow to each tank, then you have an added advantage that you isolate each tank. Otherwise, if you only have one overflow per tier, you will still need to share water among the tanks.

Dripping with individual overflow will also allow the flexibility of implementing a modular system; i.e. instead of partition one big tank, you can use many smaller tanks, move them around, have different water level, cheap enough to replace them when scratched and most important to me is that smaller tanks have thinner glass which minimize distortion when viewing and taking pictures. etc.

ck

Yes. I'm intending to have an aged water tank on the top tier, and have it drip continuously to the tanks below. The water tank will have a float switch to keep it constantly topped up.
The partitioned tanks (or smaller modular tanks) will all have PVC overflow pipes direct to drainage. Yes, I'm heading in the same direction as you have described. Basically, an almost effort free (water change) setup. Just need to add the anti-chlorine and chloramine.

[Viper007]

This is great!!!! Hmm... this will allow me to put a sponge filter or an air stone in every tank. Dang!

I can't wait to see the finish product at you place!!!!

[craftsman]

You'll have to wait a few months mate.

1. I have not finalise the house contract yet/renovation/etc
2. I'm taking on a new job in Feb
3. Have not sourced the materials yet

So... as I said earlier, this project is going to take a few months to put together. and I'm gonna savour every moment I put into it. Will show the final drawing to the kids and ask them to help me.

[StanChung]

BTW, I've not been to any LFS for a long time, so what is this "Polyart side bulkhead"? If you're thinking of OHFs, why not incorporate a "Henri deBruyn mini wet/dry filters"? Keeps your water cooler and even higher oxygenation! (trust me to make thing more complicated )

Stan, I'm not synchronized with your thoughts. Please elaborate further. BTW, testing the limits is one thing. Going off the cliff is another!

Hi Ronnie,
The side 'bulkhead' filter is I think is called an IOS filter. Proof I'm from another planet. Pardon me as I'm the lost for words posting so early in the morning.

I think you qualify as super crazy hobbyist. I'm getting there, wait for me.

Hi Paul,
If you are just dripping, the incoming water from your storage tank[air stone degassing chloramine] would not adversely affect your fishes. [test to be sure!]

The larger the storage tank the better. Target for 1:1 , storage water volume:livestock water volume.

Add a few drops of Seachem Prime if you intend to do a fortnightly/monthly large WC + scrub down of the stocked tanks.

Have fun...

[craftsman]

Hi Paul,
If you are just dripping, the incoming water from your storage tank[air stone degassing chloramine] would not adversely affect your fishes. [test to be sure!]

Stan, please correct me if I'm wrong. Chlorine evaporates, Chloramine doesn't. Our tap water contains both right? Would an airstone solve the issue of chloramine? If so, then this is fabulous!!!

[StanChung]

Hi Paul,
Chloramine breaks up with vigorous aeration. Chlorine is expelled and the little ammonia in the water would be gobbled up by your filter bacteria.

[craftsman]

Wow!!! I learnt something new today Stan!!! Yeah!!! Now I can do without buying anymore anti-chlorine/chloramine liquids! Now I'll definitely get the storage tank to age and aerate the water.

[StanChung]

Hi Paul,
I use very little anti chlorine except when doing heavy water changes and my storage water runs out. I still keep some around like Seachem Prime and Kordon Amquel for emergency use.
I also have those cheap sodium thiosulphate crystals to neutralise bleach, potassium permanganate and other disinfectants/chemicals.

[RonWill]

The side 'bulkhead' filter is I think is called an IOS filter. Proof I'm from another planet. Pardon me as I'm the lost for words posting so early in the morning

Alamak... Stan, I would have understood it perfectly if you said IOS in the first place! Always have a cuppa strong brew before posting (I just had mine).
PS: I'm back in the land of the sane. Jumped off that cliff moons ago *looks up and wonder when Stan's taking the leap*

But jokes aside, I beckon that those who have misconceptions about Chloramine and Chlorine, to please read up more on the subject. Your mains is served by waterworks in KL or it's general vicinity but in SG, it's already known that Chloramine was introduced much much earlier at PUB waterworks.

While Chlorine can dissipate with vigorous aeration, the half-life of untreated Chloramine is six months. Again, our waterworks across borders are different but don't take my words for it. Do yourself justice by trawling the facts and give your fishes what they deserve.

One of our killie old-timer mentioned, in a friendly argument, that prolonged exposure to Chloramine in low (non-lethal) dose can result in fish sterility. I personally used to run water through a four-module rig, in reduced flow-rate, with two sediment and two activated carbon cartridges. Call me kiasu, but that's me.

[CK Yeo]

Just need to add the anti-chlorine and chloramine.

Oh. That one can automate too.
You just need a peristaltic pump, set on timer.
http://reefdepot.com.sg/Products.asp...38&BrandID=All

Then again, depending on your drip rate and area, you might be able to get away with no addition of chemicals.

ck

[craftsman]

Oh. That one can automate too.
You just need a peristaltic pump, set on timer.
http://reefdepot.com.sg/Products.asp...38&BrandID=All

Then again, depending on your drip rate and area, you might be able to get away with no addition of chemicals.

ck

Wah CK.... I hesitate to go there.... I must at least do something right?

[craftsman]

Alamak... Stan, I would have understood it perfectly if you said IOS in the first place! Always have a cuppa strong brew before posting (I just had mine).
PS: I'm back in the land of the sane. Jumped off that cliff moons ago *looks up and wonder when Stan's taking the leap*

But jokes aside, I beckon that those who have misconceptions about Chloramine and Chlorine, to please read up more on the subject. Your mains is served by waterworks in KL or it's general vicinity but in SG, it's already known that Chloramine was introduced much much earlier at PUB waterworks.

While Chlorine can dissipate with vigorous aeration, the half-life of untreated Chloramine is six months. Again, our waterworks across borders are different but don't take my words for it. Do yourself justice by trawling the facts and give your fishes what they deserve.

One of our killie old-timer mentioned, in a friendly argument, that prolonged exposure to Chloramine in low (non-lethal) dose can result in fish sterility. I personally used to run water through a four-module rig, in reduced flow-rate, with two sediment and two activated carbon cartridges. Call me kiasu, but that's me.

Thats what I thought Ronnie... Guess I have to add the "anti-agents" then.

[craftsman]

Ok blokes... this is my draft of the final design....

[StanChung]

Alamak... Stan, I would have understood it perfectly if you said IOS in the first place! Always have a cuppa strong brew before posting (I just had mine).
PS: I'm back in the land of the sane. Jumped off that cliff moons ago *looks up and wonder when Stan's taking the leap*

But jokes aside, I beckon that those who have misconceptions about Chloramine and Chlorine, to please read up more on the subject. Your mains is served by waterworks in KL or it's general vicinity but in SG, it's already known that Chloramine was introduced much much earlier at PUB waterworks.

While Chlorine can dissipate with vigorous aeration, the half-life of untreated Chloramine is six months. Again, our waterworks across borders are different but don't take my words for it. Do yourself justice by trawling the facts and give your fishes what they deserve.

One of our killie old-timer mentioned, in a friendly argument, that prolonged exposure to Chloramine in low (non-lethal) dose can result in fish sterility. I personally used to run water through a four-module rig, in reduced flow-rate, with two sediment and two activated carbon cartridges. Call me kiasu, but that's me.

Hi Ronnie,
Ok, after my cuppa- Sorry because I only always talk with local guys and hardly ever use the term 'IOS filter' although I know what it is.

---

Chloramine was indeed added in Sg for a few years already and at the same time the discus farms in Singapore that relied heavily on WC after heavy feeding were the first to suffer high casualties. I spoke to two farms and they saw the fish literally 'peeled skin' in an hour after WC.
The response from their complaint to the PUB is that the well being of humans more important than fish. Fair enough.
I think it was about the same time Erect moss started browning en masse in Singapore. I heard more rumours about not just Chloramine being added but these are just word of mouth so I'm not in a position to comment.

As for Malaysia, there's many different water authorities that is broken into the differing states/sources, so each would have their own 'recipe'.
As hobbyists we are also taking precaution by adding carbon filtration as the authorities have once in awhile decide to pump in chloramine or increase the chlorine dose once awhile I believe. Especially when the source water is more turbid/contaminated than usual. I tried to find information about our own water supply and it's supposedly state secret. I hope they're putting in some anti depressant in the water. I think it would be easy for me to take my cue from the discus farms as most of them do more than 100% WC a day. Most only use simple Sodium Thiosulphate + aeration while some do use carbon cartridge filters.

I'm also thinking of adding one of those carbon filters. Most people recommend double in series, I will add it to the link just before it goes into the WC storage tank but not for the whole house as I believe some chlorine in the water is good to keep the pathogen level low.

As for my level of 'xiaoness' I think can safely say already quite high. More than 3000 litres of 'live water'.

Hi Paul, please excuse our topic diversion but I hope it's still relevant to your design.
My comment is that your 'stand pipes' should be separate and drain into a separate PVC pipe. This is incase you need to restart an air locked one you can do so without dismantling the whole piece.
I think it's probably easier to get a hole drilled into the side of the tank.

[craftsman]

Hi Paul, please excuse our topic diversion but I hope it's still relevant to your design.

No problems Stan, I enjoy the banter, and I'm definitely learning from the two of you gurus.

My comment is that your 'stand pipes' should be separate and drain into a separate PVC pipe. This is incase you need to restart an air locked one you can do so without dismantling the whole piece.
I think it's probably easier to get a hole drilled into the side of the tank.

Good advice Stan. Although its gonna look really cluttered!

[craftsman]

Will try and sneak a couple of photos when I'm there next. Will be pretty busy over the next couple of days though.

Ronnie/Stan, was at the LFS in question just now over lunch break, and sneaked a couple of pics of their IOS setup (Side bulkhead). Apologies over the quality of pics, cos its from my lousy iphone.

Drainage (un-used)


Side IOS. 3 tier setup. Water flows down from top tank into left side bulkhead, while water pump from sump below is pumped through the water manifold back into the individual tanks. Tanks are partitioned but with a gap below, allowing water to flow through to side bulkhead.


This shows the bottom gap


This is the water manifold that delivers water pumped from the sump below. Not bad. It takes care of aeration as well.


Overflow

[StanChung]

Ah, I think they abandoned the IOS in favour of EOS.[external overflow sump]
Did you ask why they prefer the latter?

My presumption is that with EOS you can minimise equipment and use only one powerful UVS.
The IOS pictured is rather small for LFS that tend to overstock.
Would be sufficient if you if you have drip system and much lower stocking levels. Eg pairs and juveniles.

[craftsman]

Ah, I think they abandoned the IOS in favour of EOS.[external overflow sump]
Did you ask why they prefer the latter?

Boy...I'm really lousy with the acronyms. You're right, Stan. They are using a sump now right at the bottom, which obviously is an external sump. Doh!

No. Didn't occur to me to ask.

My presumption is that with EOS you can minimise equipment and use only one powerful UVS.
The IOS pictured is rather small for LFS that tend to overstock.
Would be sufficient if you if you have drip system and much lower stocking levels. Eg pairs and juveniles.

yeah. I'm going to modify my design slightly based on what I saw today. I will still use individual cannisters for each tank on each tier, but on the return water, I'll put the return through the same water manifold used by the LFS. I can distribute water evenly across teh tanks, and aeration is solved!

Ronnie, I can come get your air manifold to convert to water manifold.

[RonWill]

This shows the bottom gap

Paul, I like to use gravel but will incorporate a UGF plate as well, to minimize clogging (beneath the partition divider) and longer interval between maintenance. To see how effective such simple UGF/under-flow filtration can be, stir up the gravel during maintenance and siphon from that partition. You'll be amazed how much gunk there is.

At the last partition, next to the under/overflow (above pic), the gap is a tad too narrow for comfort. Personally, I'd prefer to use coarse sponge since this is one partition that cannot be allowed to clog or fail. For aesthetics, the front edge of the sponge can be taper-cut, so that only a thin line of sponge is showing. Larger pebbles can then be laid over the sponge.

In small multiple partitions, these are usually used for small breeding groups or for growing-out older fry. I can't emphasize enough for that tier to have either the same species or pairs of different genus. In the case of killifish breeding, differentiating immature killies from the various populations of Chromaphyosemion is nearly an impossible task. Tiny fry have an uncanny way of ending up in other partitions. To have all different genus or the same species, would mean that I need not cull the un-ID'ed fry. If I foresee a higher fishload, all the return will pass though a OHF or modified Henri deBruyn.

Space permitting in the segment that has the overflow pipe, you can consider rigging up a Matten Hamburger filter to further support beneficial bacterial colonies.

BTW, are you still opting for filtration per tier or a recirculating system for all 3 tiers??? My personal choice is still per tier but if your final decision favors recirculating, then factor in the space and other manifold needs to cater for UVs.

I can come get your air manifold to convert to water manifold

No reason why not but remember to clean the valve regularly with a toothpick, satay stick or interproximall brush (from your dentist), if you detect slow output. I will be home tomorrow during the day. Call me nine2nine5 four55four after 1pm. (need my beauty sleep lah)

[RonWill]

Paul, this might clarify the use of UGF plates under the permanent partition dividers.