Can this be BGA???

[theodore]

During my daily snail siphoning session a hr ago, I spotted a piece of smooth, dark-green patch (slightly < 1cm sq) on my xmass moss. Didn't think much of it at 1st and I just siphoned it out.

The more i think abt it afterwards, the more i'm worried that it is BGA (cyano-bacteria). Tried looking for more of it 10 min ago but cant find anything on my moss and driftwood (havent tried looking at my filter media, under my riccia patch yet)

Does any1 have a picture to share? I can only find those that zoom in at the cellular structure of the bacteria - Not very useful for my case.

[budak]

smell it..... if it conjures the whiff of a rich, mellow organic aroma, tempered with the acridity of a 2001 Chateau de la Chao Sng, with a hint of swamp and a dash of bog, you have hit the jackpot!

[Allen_1971]

Blue Green Algae is one of those algae whose name quite accurately describes it... its a bluish greenish film which tends to feel quite slimy.

[checkerboard]

yah... sounds like BGA to me from your description...

maybe you shd ask how to get rid of it now... think someone suggested antibiotics recently...

[juggler]

Nice one, Marcus.

Yes. BGA is that smelly thing. It leaves an odour on your hands so bad that soap can't seem to wash it off. Moreover, after handling the tank water or the algae, you get that sticky feeling on your fingers when you rub it together.

I have a pic (not very good though but you get the idea) of BGA sticking on the glass wall of my tank. It appears in sheets. And sticks on plants and driftwoods as well.


George Booth suggest treatment of 200mg erythromycin per 10g of water.

[theodore]

The pic of BGA gave me the impression that it is slightly translucent while the piece of goo that i took out is totally opaque. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the goo is nothing but a small piece of rotting leaf that somehow got into my tank.

*fingers crossed*

[Allen_1971]

With regards to the treatment of BGA, I've got an interesting idea from some of the things I've read on the net... Basically in a discussion between someone and claus christenson (tropica boss), he mentioned that Dissolved Organic Compounds is one of the primary reasons for BGA outbreaks... Now if this is the case, then we can try and get rid of BGA by reducing these levels... So instead of running off and dumping antibiotics try this...

1) remove all the BGA you can physically remove
2) Prune your plants... remove dead/dying leaves
3) Do a good vacuum of your gravel
4) Do a large water change (40-50%)
5) Try dropping in somethings which help breakdown organics like nutrafins waste control, B-clear... also wardleys has something which is a mild PP solution designed for organic control... though in general I don't recommend using PP.

If by doing this you can reduce your dissolved organic compound levels, you not only make your fish happeir, but you may help get rid of your BGA without the antibiotics.

[Allen_1971]

Just curious as well, for those of you who have had BGA outbreaks in the past, could you just state how you dealt with it? Would be good to get some record of treatments used to deal with this problem.

[budak]

For my 2 footer, I dosed one 200 mg tablet of erythromycin every day for 5 days, watched the critters turn into dead brown mush and changed 80% of the water. After that, any 3 days at half-dose just to be sure. No discernible impact on fish and plants. However, probably due to N surge while the BGA was dying, BBA emerged in full force.

[theodore]

Update
------
The good news is that there are no sign of anymore dark coloured goo in my tank for the last 2 days. Bad news is that the MM turaco gave me 1 week ago is disintegrating (havent figured out why). The only types of algae i can spot in my tank so far are:

1. spot algae on older hygrophila leaves and glass
2. brown algae on water sprites and MM
3. hair algae entangled with my moss (ARRGHHH!!!)

Hope that my (fav) otos and malayan shrimps are ready to take care of them.

[Nick]

Maybe you can try this (adapted from Diana Walstad)

1. Run duct tape along the entire bottom/ back 3" of the tank so that the soil underlayer is never exposed to light.

2. Tape a piece of diffusive paper or cloth to the back of the tank to reduce the light.

3. Replace your 3 full spectrum lights with one Cool White light.

4. Add fresh charcoal to the filter.

[sherchoo]

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On 2/21/2003 5:03:25 PM

However, probably due to N surge while the BGA was dying, BBA emerged in full force.

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Is the surge in N the cause of BBA? As I know many forumers have high NO3 levels that don't experience BBA attacks. What was your tank PO4 levels?

Quite curious cos my tank is quite high in NO3 (40ppm) while my PO4 is at 0.5ppm. No BBA ...... yet.

[Plantbrain]

BGA is easy to get rid of.

This method is #1 cheaper, #2 takes less time, #3 addresses the cause.

You do a good picking and cleaning, then the 50% water change, add enough KNO3 to raise the NO3 to 5-10ppm.

Then cover the tank with a trash bag/blanket etc to completely black the tank out with no light being able to get in.
Turn off CO2.
Leave for 3 days.

Turn lights back on. Connect CO2. Do another water change, add fresh nutrients back, especially KNO3.

Keep up on dosing the macro nutrients this time.

That's it.

Easy, doesn't cost anything, faster than any antibiotic treatment, if effective every time if done as proscribed if the other things like CO2, PO4 etc are good.

It'll grow in high PO4/NO3 and most often appears in low NO3 conditions. Most never have an issue if they keep dosing their KNO3 etc. Low light tanks need about weekly dosings, med about 2x a week and high light low fish load tanks need 3x a week.

For the gravel line issues.
Slope the gravel down below the plastic tank trim.
I don't really like to see gravel from the front view of my tank, I want to see plants. This also keeps the BGA out of sight and away from the light.

Amano's, cory's are good since they disturb the substrate and moss etc so that it has a tough time getting established.

There is no need for antibiotics for any algae treatment and it can be rather costly.
The genus is Oscillitoria and it's spores float in the air and recolonize soil after about 20-30days after a fire, volcanic flow etc. You can killed it, but it'll come if you provide ripe conditions for it.
You will not beat it by limiting a nutrient, but rather providing the nutrients for the plants.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[Allen_1971]

Tom,

OK I did some searching, and I realize that the discussion I mentioned earlier was posted by Roger Miller in the aquabotanic forum (now archived)...

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Roger Miller Wrote:
At the AGA Conference I took an opportunity to talk with Claus Christiansen about DOC in planted aquariums. Tropica has a lot of data on DOC in aquariums and they are probably the only people who do. Claus told Cavan Allen that DOC was the controlling factor for bluegreen algae outbreaks. I find that easy to believe. Further, I think that at least some red and green algae plagues are caused by DOC. Claus didn't agree with that; I have some references but no smoking gun.
----------------

Would like to hear your impressions on this? Do you agree that DOC plays such a large role in BGA outbreaks? Also, what other roles (good and bad) do you see DOC playing in our tanks?

[Plantbrain]

Roger is obssessed with DOC and I guess I am a fair amount also.

1#
But doing 50% weekly water change never allows DOC to even build up or enter into the picture much.

2#
I do all my trimming, uprooting, pruning, mucking around in the tank first. Then after every thing has been cleaned and messed with, I'll use a brine shrimp net and get any loose floating stuff out and then I'll do the water change, using a gravel vac and lightly remove any settled mulm on the surface of the tank's gravel but not disturbing the gravel itself.

So I remove all the dead carbon material and then add loads of fresh high O2 /CO2 water to my tanks and fresh nutrients.

The main source in my tanks of DOC will be plant exudates which are fresh and produced in low amounts and are different than rotting stems, leaves, dead algae etc. Perhaps the fresh stuff is more bioactive. I don't think it's a large factor personally, but you never know.

Measure your O2 levels after doing a big hack but no water change and see what they are about 1- 2 hours after.

Algae are not carbon limited in any aquatic system.
I find it interesting and all, but I don't think it's going to help much with CO2 planted tanks.

I will say this about Tropica. They seem to find what I find on at least a dozen issues but we go about things independently and without communication. Which is good since it proves both of our points. CO2, adding much more traces, Riccia, algae etc. They have the best philosophy about planted aquariums IMO with the least amount of marketing hype BS. One of the few places that says no to heating cables along with me. They also sell QTL MR-16 lights on their cube tank. Something I did about 10 years ago.

It's all about the plant, not the algae.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Allen_1971]

Sigh... so much to learn... Now if only you guys would get together and write down all you know. It would make our lives so much easier... Ever thought about writing a book?

[juggler]

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On 2/22/2003 3:42:18 AM

It'll grow in high PO4/NO3 and most often appears in low NO3 conditions. Most never have an issue if they keep dosing their KNO3 etc. Low light tanks need about weekly dosings, med about 2x a week and high light low fish load tanks need 3x a week.

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Tom:

I had a 2-week old tank with very low fish load that got BGA because some plants in there were already infected with BGA when I planted. Since then I had treated with anit-biotics. Things are OK now.

Yes. I did notice that the BGA seem to take up NO3 from the water because the new tank should be low in NO3. The E.quadricostatus showed yellowish new leaves before the BGA fully bloomed, signs of N deficiency.

OK. If I had not treated with anti-biotics but add more NO3 to the water, would that help? Or if I were to feed the fish more of bloodworms (high in NO3 in my experience), would that help in ridding the tank of BGA? Plus continuing in my dosings of K and trace elements and light/CO2 on as usual.

[Plantbrain]

The BGA grows great in low nutrient waters.
So low that the plants cannot grow or survive well.

BGA(all algae) simply does not need much N to begin with. Plants do.

Adding more food turns into NH4, which is fine if the plants are doing well and can remove it. Inorganic NO3 from KNO3 is a better way to deal with N.
Normal fish feeding takes care of the NH4 plant requirements just fine.

You can use the antibiotics but they are not needed and take the full 5 day treatment plus cost $.

But you never needed them.

Regards,
Tom Barr