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Thread: Weird Disease Just Popped up!

  1. #1
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    Weird Disease Just Popped up!

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    ok: after sundays 2/Mar purchase of fresh fish.

    marble hatchets from petmart x 6
    2 Cory schwartzi's from that fish and pet place
    3 Cory Leucocemalas (prob) from gan's
    2 Cory Adolfoi from gans
    2 Cory Hasbrosos from petmart
    ----------
    description of events.
    28th Feb thereabouts, merged my 2ft and 4ft. I already noticed one bumblebee goby with a disease, had white spikes protruding out of the body at various places, (looking like bba infecting a plant, except its white and infecting a fish).

    I hospitalised it but it died next day.
    29th Feb, found another sick bumblebee, took it out and euthanised it.
    ----------------
    3rd Mar: Morning: woke up and check, only 4 hatchets. though two jumped out. no corpse on floor

    4th Mar: Found 1 dead cory, it was a big one, suspect its a schwartzi, but too many cories to tell.
    Only down to 3 hatchets. no hatchet corpses.
    Found 1 dead cardinal tetra. no visible signs on corpse
    Found 1 dead female guppy, but this was probably attacked by the anostomous tr... cos tail was tattered way before that.
    Evening, found a sick Madagascar rainbow. symptoms.seems like ulcer or swelling on the midsection of the body, fished it out and placed in hospital tank. later saw had white blobbish feaces, used Miracle Baby's MQ4 Super Dewormer in that hospital tank.

    5th Mar: Evening: the Madagascar rainbow is dead.
    Found 2 dead cardinals.
    Found 1 dying cardinal , behaviour: it was swimming/skipping on the water.. ie: almost like trying to jump out of the water, body was side ways.

    the dead cardinals had no visible symptoms: ie: they look healthy, just dead.

    ---------------
    sounds like internal parasites? flukes?

    Ever since I found the first bumblebee, I've dosed the tank with Seachem Paragard (anti ectoparasites, external fungal/bacterial/viral lesions)

    at least 3 water changes have occurred.

    water additives were pmdd, sodium bicarbonate, salt, peat tablets (jbl humulon)

  2. #2
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    50% water change done about 3 hours ago 9pm. added carbon and uv filtration, (in case its something in the water first), will be treating with myxaxin later.)

    meanwhile, just found (as in within the last 3 hours).
    2 dead corydoras , 1 dead cardinal, 2 dead madagascar rainbows.

  3. #3
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    the tetras display no symptoms. the cories are practically skeletonised. and the madagascar rainbow has a swelling at the tail region (before the fin).

    columnaris?

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    Mmmmmmm...should go easy on the fishes lah...do water changes to improve conditions but do not dump medications anyhow mah. Wait and see first mah...ID the problem properly first before attempting to treat rather than throwing all sorts of medication (more harm done than good).
    Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger

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    ----------------
    On 3/6/2003 12:24:41 AM

    Mmmmmmm...should go easy on the fishes lah...do water changes to improve conditions but do not dump medications anyhow mah. Wait and see first mah...ID the problem properly first before attempting to treat rather than throwing all sorts of medication (more harm done than good).
    ----------------
    I second his opinion, imagine you are having a flu and your doctor keep prescibing you different medicine just because you didn't recover enough for the pass three hours?
    Cheers and Regards,
    Billy Cheong

    I'm not always dumb,
    Just most of the time...

  6. #6
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    what are you guys talking about? this is a disease that's fatal. if you're telling me to wait and see, its done. waited 2 hours without doing anything (just carbon filtration + uv)


    within the last 2 hours.
    1 dead oto
    1 dead corydoras macropterus
    1 dead white cloud mountain minnow,. and that's before treatment of anything.

    no symptoms. oto was skeletonized, cory and white cloud were float, body has no swellings or anything.

    just fished out all the dead fish and started dosing 15 ml of myxazin.

    ammonia = 0
    no2 = 0
    ph last tested was 6.9

  7. #7
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    within the last 40 minutes (2.40am now).

    1 cardinal seen breathing on the surface
    1 nanostomous trasvetitus seen laboured breathing and weak.

    I fished both out.
    doubt they will survive.

    gill flukes? multi disease combo?

    also saw one cardinal with a vertical band of off color skin
    (ie: not quite distinct, just a little less brilliant compared to other cardinals

  8. #8
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    8:45am.

    found dying cardinal, fished it out.
    found dead Apisto Trifiascata male. nothing unusual on corpse

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    What do u mean when u said "merged my 2ft and 4ft"? What are your Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate readings?

    White spikes on goby sounds like some kind of fungal infection, possibly stress-related / secondary infection. Last time i saw something like that was when my tank was not fully cycled (added a few fishes on the 3rd week). Luckily for me, only one died.

    A few things I would try (if i'm in ur shoes) :

    1. Salt bath (15-30min) and into hospital tank. One concern i can think of would be ur cories. Some say that salt treatment would kill catfishes but my otos did well when i tried it. Cories may be a different story i suppose.

    2. Anti-biotics bath (15-30min) with commercial anti-bact medication and into hospital tank. The prob with this is that I cant tell if the bacterial infection is due to gram +ve or gram -ve bacteria. I would avoid dosing the medication into my main tank cos it may kill off my beneficial bacteria colonies.

    3. Heavily salt your tank (without the fishes) - Some of your more sensitive plants may die / stop growing due to high salinity. Leave it for a day or two before removing the salt through water changes (unless you want your fishes to return to a marine tank when they get better).

    I hope you are attempting to remove all traces of your 1st med(Seachem paragard) when you used the activated carbon. This is gd practise when wish to try a 2nd med(myxaxin).

    Lastly, if main tank's beneficial bacteria gets killed off in the treatment process (i have a feeling myxaxin will knock it out), the tank will cycle and experience ammonia and nitrite spikes again. This may contribute to more fish deaths.
    ThEoDoRe

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    Chris,

    sorry to hear about your tank... just a few things...

    you might wanna pop by sera's webby to see if the disease charts there can help.

    Secondly, dosing myzaxin together with paraguard could be toxic... I know myzaxin and protozin cannot be dosed together. Not sure what is paraguard comprised off.

    Thirdly you should turn off your UV during any medicine dosing... leaving your UV on can break down the medicines itself and cause them to become toxic. I believe David had some experience with this where the UV actually broke down the meds and caused his fish to gasp for air.

    Fourthly, while salt isn't a cure all, it does deal with lots of parasites, and helps with reducing osmotic pressure for the fishes. So I would advise salt at 1tbsp/5G levels...

    If I were U, I would do a large water change, turn off my UV. add salt, add an air pump, and then wait and see...
    Allen

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    ----------------
    On 3/6/2003 10:56:33 AM

    Lastly, if main tank's beneficial bacteria gets killed off in the treatment process (i have a feeling myxaxin will knock it out), the tank will cycle and experience ammonia and nitrite spikes again. This may contribute to more fish deaths.
    ----------------
    As a side note, myzaxin does not harm filter bacteria.
    Allen

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    Chris, there seemed to be quite frequent problems in your tank. Quite upsetting I guess.[]

    The might be something about the water that is not right... or the food you feed. (Just my guess.)

    Maintaining good water and giving good quality food will prevent diseases. Tom Barr will tell you that he has not have any disease for xx years. Barring the first 3~4 months of my tank (no experience with fishes then), I have not gotten any diseases... touch wood.
    *dipping my hand in the tank and holding onto the driftwood*
    Nothing fanciful... just water change, good plant health, good food... leaving everything as natural as possible... no additives (geoliquid,etc.), no UV filter, no carbon,...


    Good luck

    BC

  13. #13
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    a) 28th feb or so when I dismantled my two feet tank and dumped the inhabitants of some 20+ cories, 4 cigar fish, angel fish etc into my 4ft and sold off all my equipment.

    from 28th feb to about 3rd March, I dosed the tank with paragard.
    During this time, about 20% water change daily. UV IS OFF.

    paragard kills ectoparasites etc etc mentioned above, I supposed 3 days are enough.

    during which time I did add new fish.

    --
    On the night of 5th march, I did a 50% water change, filtered the water for about 2 hours of carbon filtration, during which I still have more deaths.

    after carbon filtration, I dosed the tank with myxaxin, this morning, about 4 hours later. I found the apisto trifiscata dead and a cardinal breathing on the surface.

    I fished out that cardinal put it in a seperate container with fresh tapwater/anti chlorine.
    45 minutes later, that cardinal was dead.

    ---------

    the disease strikes so fast , there is NO time for any treatment to work by the time you notice the symptoms.

    KH = 1 or 0
    PH = 6.8,6.9
    Nh3/nh4 = 0 ZERO
    NO2 = 0 ZERO

    if its something in the water, I doubt the first madagascar rainbow that I saw would have a swelling on its body. (like something from ALIEN trying to get out..)

    --
    at no time was there any mixing of chemicals (or at least not significantly) ie: 50% water change followed by carbon filtration.

  14. #14
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    I suspect since there are no visible symptoms besides dying (for most of the fish that do die) and the breathing at the surface problem of cardinals, and the way its spread. (ie: cardinals don't usually eat dead fish like the skeletonized cories and otos)..

    could be gill flukes. except I don't see the fish scratching in any way.

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    It is not disease. It is your water. The disease symptoms are showing up are secondary, after your fish are stressed by the water conditions. If that's the case, all the medicine you are adding is probably not help much.

    Your substrate is probably leeching something into the water. Fish gasp at the surface for air when the O2 is less than 5ppm (could be other things though).

    For the moment, I would suggest change tonnes of water and wait it out. Re-populate the tank SLOWLY.

    ck

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    ParaGuard™ is a unique dialdehyde based treatment with synergistic malachite green and fish protective polymers. It is the only liquid medication on the market to control parasitic, bacterial, fungal, and viral infections. It will not damage the biological filter. It is exceptionally effective in dips. It is a highly effective and economical solution for problems of ectoparasites and infectious lesions. It will not affect the pH. A 100 mL bottle treats 200 gallons. Marine and freshwater use.


    Sizes: 100 mL, 250 mL, 2 L, 4 L, 20 L

    DIRECTIONS: In the aquarium, use 1 mL (top mark on enclosed dispenser) to every 2 gallons. Repeat daily as required as long as fish show no stress. For 1 hour dips, use 3 mL per gallon. Dips may be extended if fish show no evidence of stress. Aquarium Use Only! Keep Away from Children! WARNING! Avoid any contact with eyes. In case of eye exposure, promptly wash with copious amounts of water and seek medical attention

  17. #17
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    my substrate is seachem fluorite/gravel mix. it cannot leach anything. it has no base fert.

    the fish that are dying are a mix of those originally in the 4ft and those from the 2ft, so its not stress, cos if you want to consider stress, then it would be those from the 2ft since they came from a lower ph tank.

    its more likely to be something introduced over the weekend cos of the various fish places I went (ie: chong sua, that fish and pet place,petmart etc etc. which isn't something I normally do), which remind me: next time: quarantine..grr



    gill flukes very strong possibility.

    I came home at 12:30am. that's about 15 hours.

    3 dead cardinal tetras
    1 dead kuhli loach
    1 dead apistogramma trifiascata female (leaving me with one female left)
    1 dead nanostomous transvetitus (this one, saw that the gills are inflamed/gill cover swollen) - leads me to believe its gill flukes.
    1 dead white cloud mountain minnow
    1 dead oto.

  18. #18
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    Chris,

    sorry to hear all these sad news that's been happening in your tank. I hope these dark hours will be over soon.

  19. #19
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    you might be wrong, you might be right, it's actually not important
    doesn't hurt to give other people's suggestions a go, especially when your own treatment isn't working, yes?
    iirc, you've been having problems with your fish for a long time
    i'd go with ck's suggestion

  20. #20
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    My previous fish problems stopped for sometime already (ie: since december when I redid the tank.).

    this morning. 9:03am.
    1 dead anostomous tri..
    1 dead kuhli loach
    1 dead corydoras leucomalas
    1 dead white cloud mountain minnow
    1 dead microrasbora

    I can't use a hospital tank. cos the whole tank should be infected, no symptoms for infected fish, could be eg: I notice the fish acting weird (either all by itself for cardinals, or acting weakly ) , when I fish it out to the hospital tank, within 45 minutes or so, its already dead. (at least for the last 3 cardinals I did that for.)

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