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Thread: Field report for Aquarama 2009

  1. #41
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

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    Just curious, was there a AQ booth? I thought i read it somewhere about it in earlier phases.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    I saw something disturbing on Sunday when I visited the GEX booth. There were dead clown fishes in the "miracle water". Wasn't too sure if it was because of the water or they were just stressed. I certainly feel we should just keep just fresh water and salt water fishes in their respective environments.

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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyhanz View Post
    I saw something disturbing on Sunday when I visited the GEX booth. There were dead clown fishes in the "miracle water". Wasn't too sure if it was because of the water or they were just stressed. I certainly feel we should just keep just fresh water and salt water fishes in their respective environments.
    When i was at the GEX booth on Saturday, a few clown fishes were already displaying signs that they weren't doing so well in the tank. Looks like magic from "Miracle water" can only last a couple of days....

  4. #44
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    I did see dead clown fish in that tank. There were also seahorse in that tank too. I don't know what to say lah, some people like the idea of combining 2 different water bodies into 1 but for me, it's quite unnatural. For one, I do not want to be a part of that whateveryoumightcallit.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    I am one of them who boycott the booth that dye fish. They were right at the corner.

  6. #46
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    I know I will offend a lot of people when I say this....SORRY.

    I really hope that the marine fishes and corals that we can buy from LFS and have them in our tanks are breed by breeders instead of caught in the sea. For a start, for sure we need to get it from the sea, but we should not continue to take them out of the sea and put them into our tanks, every single piece of it.

    Like shrimps, plecos and Beta and some others, breeders starts by getting some from the wild and continue from there (maybe some still catch from the rivers and lake, but at least hopefully not in that big qty). At least not as much harm to the eco system (although we still do) and more people can enjoy the hobby.

    I hope that I am wrong that all the marine fishes and corals comes from the sea, instead most of it comes from the breeders. Otherwise, it really hurts to see that that many marine fish equipments and marine tanks was on display when I was there on Sunday. And this hobby is getting more accepted.

    I am a diver, I have seen how the corals were being removed and the clown fishes were caught, chemicals were used and the damage was much bigger than the loss of a fish or a piece of coral, the chemical left behind killed much more than the item being removed, or should I say, a fish caught causes the death of another 4-5 fishes that was left behind. It really hurts.

    More people understand the bad effects of eating shark fins or have a whale shark to be kept in the Singapore IR (idea was scrape, Yahoo!!), these are the big staff, but a small little clown fish and coral will have the same effect to the eco system when more are being caught and destroyed.

    I really do apologize to the marine hobbyist for my 0.000002 cents of understanding and comments and I really hope that I am wrong, but if I am not, maybe you can join me in diving and when you see the beautiful underwater world and the damage that we have done, compare the difference, maybe you will feel my pain.

    EK

  7. #47
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    Hmmm, your point is valid but lack the depth. The same is happening to the freshwater inhabitant too. Habitat lost due to human encroachment is occuring too.
    If you've learnt, teach, if you have, give.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by es88k View Post
    I know I will offend a lot of people when I say this....SORRY.

    I really hope that the marine fishes and corals that we can buy from LFS and have them in our tanks are breed by breeders instead of caught in the sea. For a start, for sure we need to get it from the sea, but we should not continue to take them out of the sea and put them into our tanks, every single piece of it.

    Like shrimps, plecos and Beta and some others, breeders starts by getting some from the wild and continue from there (maybe some still catch from the rivers and lake, but at least hopefully not in that big qty). At least not as much harm to the eco system (although we still do) and more people can enjoy the hobby.

    I hope that I am wrong that all the marine fishes and corals comes from the sea, instead most of it comes from the breeders. Otherwise, it really hurts to see that that many marine fish equipments and marine tanks was on display when I was there on Sunday. And this hobby is getting more accepted.

    I am a diver, I have seen how the corals were being removed and the clown fishes were caught, chemicals were used and the damage was much bigger than the loss of a fish or a piece of coral, the chemical left behind killed much more than the item being removed, or should I say, a fish caught causes the death of another 4-5 fishes that was left behind. It really hurts.

    More people understand the bad effects of eating shark fins or have a whale shark to be kept in the Singapore IR (idea was scrape, Yahoo!!), these are the big staff, but a small little clown fish and coral will have the same effect to the eco system when more are being caught and destroyed.

    I really do apologize to the marine hobbyist for my 0.000002 cents of understanding and comments and I really hope that I am wrong, but if I am not, maybe you can join me in diving and when you see the beautiful underwater world and the damage that we have done, compare the difference, maybe you will feel my pain.

    EK
    Not all marine hobbyists do nothing to conserve the marine organisms they keep. Some of them propagate corals, including acropora corals. Some of them breed marine fishes. This is just not so obvious compared to FW hobby because marine organisms are so many times harder to propagate.
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  9. #49
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by FuEl View Post
    Some of them propagate corals, including acropora corals. Some of them breed marine fishes. This is just not so obvious compared to FW hobby because marine organisms are so many times harder to propagate.
    I totally agree that marine organisms are so much more difficult to propagate when you can see that by keeping them, it is more difficult.

    I said it before that I really hope that I am wrong and I really hope that you guys have more success and sooner. Best wishes...

    EK

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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by BFG View Post
    The same is happening to the freshwater inhabitant too. Habitat lost due to human encroachment is occuring too.
    Again, I agree to that as well as I have mentioned it as well. Maybe I should say that the % of Fresh water hobbyist having their inhabitant from breeders are higher than the marine hobbyist. I just hope that they will have more success from the breeders (now that I know that they do have breeders, mentioned by FuEl) and reduce the import from the sea.

    EK

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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by benny View Post
    The most amazing of all.... a special water condition that makes it possible to keep marine fishes together with fresh water fishes!!!



    I couldn't believe it initially but it's true!
    I can't believe it too. Did you get any information on how this was done?

    Sorry to dig up an old thread. I was googling for L46 and Google brought me here somehow.
    Then your report was so interesting that I kept reading and came across this interesting concept.


    Btw, I don't. (to answer the question in your signature)
    from 14L to 8L tank.

  12. #52
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    found this in another forum, shrimpnow. There's photos to explain this magic powder/water.
    http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...=375399&page=3

    but this product is not available in the GEX website. probably it is no longer in production? It's not that I want to buy, just curious to find out more on this concept.
    http://www.gex-fp.co.jp/english/fish/index.html
    from 14L to 8L tank.

  13. #53
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    Thats not Shrimpnow...its Arofanatics. Why would Shrimpnow be talking about magic powder for marine fishes to live with freshwater fishes?

    Anyway, this could be a failed product. There is no more news or advert about it and from what I can see, is just an attempt to make brackish water that is somehow more easily tolerated by both fresh and marine fishes. However, it cannot be healthy for long term use and only a few species can truly adapt. Guppies and other brackish species perhaps. Reef and goldfish? Not likely.

    The so called "secrets" are electrolytes? Electrolytes are just ions of potassium, calcium, magnesium, sodium and other minerals/elements. The same things we use to create GH, KH and TDS. Nothing magical there.

  14. #54
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Navanod View Post
    Thats not Shrimpnow...its Arofanatics. Why would Shrimpnow be talking about magic powder for marine fishes to live with freshwater fishes?

    Anyway, this could be a failed product. There is no more news or advert about it and from what I can see, is just an attempt to make brackish water that is somehow more easily tolerated by both fresh and marine fishes. However, it cannot be healthy for long term use and only a few species can truly adapt. Guppies and other brackish species perhaps. Reef and goldfish? Not likely.

    The so called "secrets" are electrolytes? Electrolytes are just ions of potassium, calcium, magnesium, sodium and other minerals/elements. The same things we use to create GH, KH and TDS. Nothing magical there.
    hehe.. pai seh, surfed too many sites and quote wrongly, luckily the link is correct.

    I see. No wonder it's nowhere found in the GEX product site now.
    from 14L to 8L tank.

  15. #55
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    It is a nice concept, but when so many people already cannot handle marine or freshwater tanks on their own, it'll be even trickier to try and merge them!
    I've heard of people breeding guppies for marine tanks though


  16. #56
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    I've heard of that, especially for marine aquarists who are breeding guppies as feeders for their fishes. Guppies have a high tolerance of salinity, so acclimating them to a marine environment is not impossible but it has to be done carefully. There are a few experiments and write ups done on guppies, mainly by Shikano Takahito but I can only find one;

    http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2108/zsj.15.35
    Currently Keeping: Cyphotilapia sp. & Hypancistrus zebra

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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Shi Xuan View Post
    I've heard of that, especially for marine aquarists who are breeding guppies as feeders for their fishes. Guppies have a high tolerance of salinity, so acclimating them to a marine environment is not impossible but it has to be done carefully. There are a few experiments and write ups done on guppies, mainly by Shikano Takahito but I can only find one;

    http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2108/zsj.15.35
    I see. The link is a good read. I wonder if there's a way to mix salt water and freshwater shrimps together using the same concept.

    and no wonder my cherry shrimps survived the salt water dip (treatment), which I am going to post a new thread on it.
    from 14L to 8L tank.

  18. #58
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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    I don't know if it works for shrimps, I've never tried that before back then when I was keeping some shrimps but I believe the concept might not be exactly the same.

    Take for example bull sharks, which is a marine animal capable of moving into inland freshwater rivers. This is because they have a special adaption which their kidneys function and a rectal gland near their tail which excretes salt when required, acting just like a valve. Also, they have very tiny sensors on their skin which constantly monitor the salt level in the surrounding water.

    This is impossible for other marine fishes or even marine shrimps because if you subject them to a freshwater condition, their body will start to absorb water, mainly through the fine membranes of the gills in fishes, their kidneys will work really hard to pump that water out but it's not going to work. In the end, their cells will simply burst.
    Currently Keeping: Cyphotilapia sp. & Hypancistrus zebra

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    Re: Field report for Aquarama 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Shi Xuan View Post
    I don't know if it works for shrimps, I've never tried that before back then when I was keeping some shrimps but I believe the concept might not be exactly the same.

    Take for example bull sharks, which is a marine animal capable of moving into inland freshwater rivers. This is because they have a special adaption which their kidneys function and a rectal gland near their tail which excretes salt when required, acting just like a valve. Also, they have very tiny sensors on their skin which constantly monitor the salt level in the surrounding water.

    This is impossible for other marine fishes or even marine shrimps because if you subject them to a freshwater condition, their body will start to absorb water, mainly through the fine membranes of the gills in fishes, their kidneys will work really hard to pump that water out but it's not going to work. In the end, their cells will simply burst.
    I see. Thanks for the explanation and illustration. It's a shame that I didn't realise there's a kind of sharks (bull shark) which can (and will) move to freshwater stream.

    It's great to learn something new while reading/researching on other topics. Many thanks for sharing once again. Cheers.
    from 14L to 8L tank.

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