Donald duck lips on fish followed by certain death

**Jitticus** · 18th Sep 2009, 11:53

Dear fellow experts, I did a search on this subforum and found nothing close enough to help me with my problem.

The situation goes like this. I run a barrack (continuous flow) system with a 9 watt UV turned on for 24/7. Disease outbreaks are usually isolated to the compartments as the water flows directly into the sump and does't mix with other compartments. Now, recently I've noticed a few deaths, not at the same time, but their symptoms are rather similar.

Here's how it goes:
1. Fish look slightly off - eating, but not that vigorously.
2. Mouth looks locked - it looks like a parrot cichlid's mouth, ie can't close properly. fish now can't eat.
3. Lips look like it has hardened, inflamed and fish die within the day.

The sequence of events takes 2 to 3 days max and fish die without every recovering. I have tried yellow powder (nifurpirinol, i think) and melafix, even salt. None seem to work. My most recent casualty was a A. sp abacaxis which died overnight.

I just need to know what is the causative agent for this "duck bill" disease. I hope someone can help me here. Thanks.

**exotic_idiot** · 18th Sep 2009, 12:01

I also encounter this kind of problems also.

So far none has recover, all died.

Would be great if anyone has any mircle cure to share.

**seanskye** · 22nd Sep 2009, 21:16

Any pictures? Not sure if what you are describing is mouth rot or something else.

**PKB** · 22nd Sep 2009, 21:28

Same issue with my 2 Red Eye Tetra and Ram.

The upper lips or lower lips seems to shorten and unable to fully close.
Fish will suddenly die off, none recover.

**tinydot** · 25th Sep 2009, 16:23

not sure if this thread helps...

**StanChung** · 25th Sep 2009, 18:31

Seems like the thread implied disease was caused by some nematode.

**minute_me** · 26th Sep 2009, 19:34

my betta recently got this mouth thingy too. died overnight after i isolate it. it could be fungus in the water which is hard to eliminate.

**Jitticus** · 26th Sep 2009, 20:14

Thanks for the reply all.

**Jitticus** · 13th Dec 2009, 22:05

I'm back, this time the scourge has returned. I'm at wit's end as to what this is.
I've posted this on the apistogramma forums but will post here as well in hopes taht someone has encountered this before and can help me.

I believe there may be a bacterial factor in the origin of this condition. I have just begun keeping dwarf cichlids in the last 6 months or so and each time I've had a piece develop this "donald duck" lip condition, the mortality is 100% (I've had about 5 pieces die from this).
It doesn't seem highly infectious though, but in the last couple of days, 2 pieces of my precious adoketa have caught it, with 1 being dead and another 7 sharing the same tank. I'm worried sick as they cost me a bomb. If I were to lose them, I think i'll go crazy.
So far I've added some nifurpirinol and mardel coppersafe, which is my most lethal combination against bacterial conditions that I know off.

Here are some pictures of the surviving fella. Please help. I need to know how to cure this devastating disease.

There is some redness around the lips, pointing to an inflammatory reaction, but to what, I don't know.

**43a57** · 14th Dec 2009, 08:19

somehow looks like the source of the disease has not been eliminated over the past few months, or has been reintroduced.
do u somehow use live feed?

if your UV system is working then I suppose bacterial and viral causes can remove. think of parasitic and fungal treatments?

**stormhawk** · 14th Dec 2009, 08:50

Hi Jitticus,

Can you tell me if there were any visible inflammation on the bodies of the dead fishes so far? It is highly likely that this disease is bacterial in nature.

I'd recommend that you move the infected fish to temporary hospital tanks. Perhaps you might want to list the diet you are feeding the fish with?

**Jitticus** · 14th Dec 2009, 10:20

I do feed them with the occasional live blood worms, which I treat by soaking in potassium permanganate and heavy rinsing prior to feeding. I don't see any dead fish this morning before rushing off to work, perhaps I'll check later to see if the coppersafe + nifurpirinol combination worked. Thanks guys.

**stormhawk** · 15th Dec 2009, 00:56

I think you might want to lay off the live blood worms for a while. Sometimes we don't know for sure if the source is contaminated. Plus I read somewhere, that bloodworms are full of heavy metals, especially if they're from a source in China.

Good luck on the treatment. It does remind me of the initial stages of mouth "fungus" though. I had this sometime back with a tank of guppies. Practically euthanised everything, and dried out the tank after a good scrub down.

**Jitticus** · 15th Dec 2009, 11:48

Originally Posted by stormhawk

I think you might want to lay off the live blood worms for a while. Sometimes we don't know for sure if the source is contaminated. Plus I read somewhere, that bloodworms are full of heavy metals, especially if they're from a source in China.

Good luck on the treatment. It does remind me of the initial stages of mouth "fungus" though. I had this sometime back with a tank of guppies. Practically euthanised everything, and dried out the tank after a good scrub down.

I was using live blood worms, but treated with potassium permanganate. But I do agree that there could be some internal stuff left.