Question on fertilsation

[woodlands]

Hi folks

Newbie here, read up and listed below that the plants requires:

Macro elements

carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium and sulpur in a relatively large amounts.

and

micro elements

iron, managnese, zinc, boron, copper and molybdenum (wat is tat?)

How do i decide if my plants are getting the necessary? What signs do i look out for - besides finding algaes blooming indicating nutrient inbalance???

What a good source of potassium in the market? wat product can u recommend?

Shd i add epsom salt like some article suggest? if so how much do i dose for a 50ltr tank?

does tat means i hv to have certain types of test kits to determine the above?

currently, i am having an outbreak of green algaes ( the bushy and stubby sort) and those black hairlike algaes on the leaves of my plants. Help !!!

thanks in advance.

info of tank

dimension : 2ft 60cm x 30cm x 30cm
lighting : 2 x PL lights 36W Orsam
no of hrs : 10hrs
co2 injection : 2 bpm
type of co2 : tank
substrate : gravel
bast fert : none
thickness of gravel : 12cm
liquid fert : Tetra Floride
temp : unknown
filter : ehiem ecco 2233
medium : wool, rings
set up : may 2002

kh : 4
ph : 6.6 - 6.8
rest : unknown -

bioload :

plants : red lotus, B. japonica, christmas moss, anubias barteri nana, echinodorus tenellus, hygrophila polyserma, limnophila hipurodies (turning green and poorly grown)

fishes : 1 wood shrimp, 10 malayan shrimps, 10 rummy, 10 neon, 2 pencil, 5 rainbow fish, 1 dwaft gouramis, 6 otos, 7 cories

[Nick]

Test your NO3 and PO4 level first, and tell us your results.

[naturetan]

Refer to this for deficiency, but not a good judgement at times.

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm

[bclee]

----------------
On 4/13/2003 7:30:41 PM

Hi folks

Newbie here, read up and listed below that the plants requires:

Macro elements

carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium and sulpur in a relatively large amounts.

and

micro elements

iron, managnese, zinc, boron, copper and molybdenum (wat is tat?)
----------------

Micronutrients are usually provided by the liquid fertilisers. Your Tetra Flourapride should cover these.

Some macronutrients are present in our tap water like S, Mg, & Ca. NO3 and PO4 will come from the fish's wastes and fish food and other rotting stuff. K is one of the nutrients that is often lacking.

----------------
How do i decide if my plants are getting the necessary? What signs do i look out for - besides finding algaes blooming indicating nutrient inbalance???
----------------

Pale leaves, yellowing leaves, brown spots, holey leaves are signs of deficiencies.

Algae bloom not so much because of imbalance, but deficiencies in plants. Nutrient ratio can be out of what the plants actually require, but, as long as there is no deficiency, it should not cause too much problem.

----------------
What a good source of potassium in the market? wat product can u recommend?
----------------

K2SO4 is a economical source of potassium.
KCl from lo-salt can be used too, but it contains NaCl which is not much needed by plants and could cause a problem if you allow it to accumulate.
Seachem Flourish Potassium is another alternative but it cost significantly more.
Seachem Equilibrium contains quite a lot of K too, it provides Ca, Mg, Fe & Mn too.

----------------
Shd i add epsom salt like some article suggest? if so how much do i dose for a 50ltr tank?
----------------

Not necessary unless you are having Mg deficiency.

----------------
does tat means i hv to have certain types of test kits to determine the above?
----------------

PO4 & NO3 are 2 kits to have if you are learning about plant nutrients.
GH measure general hardness which comprises of Mg and Ca.
Fe is optional, not really required. Just keep up with liq fert dosing you should not have a problem with Fe.

----------------
currently, i am having an outbreak of green algaes ( the bushy and stubby sort) and those black hairlike algaes on the leaves of my plants. Help !!!
----------------

Do a check on your NO3 & PO4. Start dosing some K.
recommended level:
K 20ppm (by calculations of dosing)
NO3 5~10ppm (test kit, dose as required)
PO4 0.5~0.7ppm (test kit, dose as required)

----------------
thanks in advance.

info of tank

dimension : 2ft 60cm x 30cm x 30cm
lighting : 2 x PL lights 36W Orsam
no of hrs : 10hrs
co2 injection : 2 bpm
type of co2 : tank
substrate : gravel
bast fert : none
thickness of gravel : 12cm
liquid fert : Tetra Floride
temp : unknown
filter : ehiem ecco 2233
medium : wool, rings
set up : may 2002

kh : 4
ph : 6.6 - 6.8
rest : unknown -

bioload :

plants : red lotus, B. japonica, christmas moss, anubias barteri nana, echinodorus tenellus, hygrophila polyserma, limnophila hipurodies (turning green and poorly grown)

fishes : 1 wood shrimp, 10 malayan shrimps, 10 rummy, 10 neon, 2 pencil, 5 rainbow fish, 1 dwaft gouramis, 6 otos, 7 cories
----------------

You have very high lights. You are likely to run out of macronutrients very quickly with this kind of lighting. If you are still unsure of the nutrients, you can lower the lighting and reduce the nutrient demand. Raise it back until you get the hang of things. Otherwise, you will be faced with fustrations.

BC

[CK Yeo]

a bit off topic, but couldn't help not noticing that you have 12cm of substrate in a 30cm tall tank. So meaning almost half your tank is substrate lah?

For fertilizers, you really only need to worry about N, P, K, Ca, Mg, Fe and the all important C. The rest can be supplied in an all in one trace element fertilizer or fish food.

ck

[woodlands]

thanks for the response, will look into the above suggestions and advises when i purchase the kits. and mistake - not 12cm gravel hehehe ... its abt 2inches []

[naturetan]

BC Lee,

Quote:
"Algae bloom not so much because of imbalance, but deficiencies in plants. Nutrient ratio can be out of what the plants actually require, but, as long as there is no deficiency, it should not cause too much problem."

As you've mentioned, do you mean algae will not occur if certain nutrient are excessive? What happened during the situation where N and P are excessive? Say, NO3 = 60ppm, P = 4ppm.

From what I read, excessive P & N will cause algae problem, even if we keep up with the uptake of other nutrients. Any experience that invalidate such claim? Would be curious to know.

[PeterGwee]

I think BC did mention in his previous few post in the forum that he has P of 40ppm!! and no algae...well..what do you think? Nutrients in excess are no problem..the only problem I think is that algae might grow on your driftwood or stones whereas plants are not affected as they are very healthy (all nutrients are in place...max uptake...healthy plants).

Algae on driftwood, stones or the tank glass are simply food for your critters..[]

[bclee]

Wrong lah Peter...[]

NO3 30~40ppm
PO3 20ppm

BC

[PeterGwee]

haha..is it...PO3?? wrong lah..

[bclee]

Ooppps... Peter, you are correct.

My post

After 1 month, it came down to 20ppm.

BC

[naturetan]

Thanks, Peter and BC. That's an interesting finding!

Another question. Since an excess of NO3 & PO4 will unlikely cause algae problem, then why do we need to get a test kit for NO3 & PO4 for algae problem? Why not just dose the right amount, and disregard the excess?

I understand that NO3 has a tolerable limit for fishes, how about P? Any adverse effect for your case if too high?

[FC]

bclee,

I am still puzzle by your high PO4 level, is this the same tank that you have algae problem recently?

[bclee]

Yes.

It did not have any algae problem until recently. I measured the values:

NO3 0ppm
PO4 1.0ppm

I have started dosing NO3 and most of the BBA is gone now.

Naturetan, you will need test kits to make sure that NO3 or PO4 don't run low.

BC

[naturetan]

What I mean is that after every water change, people with algae problem just dose:
NO3 -> 10 or more ppm
PO4 -> 1 or more ppm

Then sure will never run low of this nutrients. Don't need any test kits, excess does not matter too. Can save money to buy more plants liao.[]

[tawauboy]

you'll need test kits.
even if you dose some no3 and po4 after every water change, you cannot guarantee that there will be some no3 or po4 left at your next water change.
assuming you perform water changes every week, you'll need to measure the no3 and po4 level after water change. this gives you a reference point. at the end of the week, just before water change, you'll need to test the no3 and po4 levels again. knowing the levels after and before water change, will tell you what the consumption rate of you tank is and you will be able to dose sufficient nutrients.

[Plantbrain]

Here's some food for thought for folks and playing with test kits that seldom tell you what you need to know.

For most 0.5w/liter tanks, 2x or so a week is enough if there's a fish load. If the fish load is very light/the lighting more intense, 3x a week is good.

Example: 80liter tank:
per dose:
5mls of traces
1/4 teaspoon of KNO3
1-2 rice grains of KH2PO4

After 50% weekly water change:
1/4 teaspoon or slightly more of K2SO4

This will remove any excess with the water changes and add enough so that nothing runs out during the week.

This is enough(3x a week) for even high light systems.
Low light tanks, .3w/l to .4 w/l can go once a week or so.

In the time it takes to test I can already have changed the water and know that I haver reset the tank completely.

Regards,
Tom Barr






http://www.aquatic-plants.org/fert/e...st_index1.html

[illumbomb]

----------------
On 4/15/2003 12:15:57 PM

For most 0.5w/liter tanks, 2x or so a week is enough if there's a fish load. If the fish load is very light/the lighting more intense, 3x a week is good.

Example: 80liter tank:
per dose:
5mls of traces
1/4 teaspoon of KNO3
1-2 rice grains of KH2PO4

After 50% weekly water change:
1/4 teaspoon or slightly more of K2SO4

This will remove any excess with the water changes and add enough so that nothing runs out during the week.

This is enough(3x a week) for even high light systems.
Low light tanks, .3w/l to .4 w/l can go once a week or so.

----------------

A question about LushGro Micro again.... When Tom mention 5ml of traces 2x a week, is LushGro Micro considered as "traces"?

Does it mean we can safely dose LushGro Micro into a 80l tank 2x a week if we follow his estimative method? If 20 drops = 1ml, we will need to dose about 28 drops daily to achieve 10ml weekly despite the fact that the instruction wrote "not more than 1 drops per 10L"...

Also, is there any particular reason why we don't split K2SO4 into 1/8 teaspoon twice a week like the rest of them???

Thanks.

[FC]

A question about LushGro Micro again.... When Tom mention 5ml of traces 2x a week, is LushGro Micro considered as "traces"?

LushGroMicro is very concentrated. As a rough guide, use 1 ml per 100 litre water.

[PeterGwee]

Base on the formulation given for lushgro micros....

Iron 21,253mg/l

5ml of micros would yield = 106.265 mg
Dosed to 80l or 20gallons of tank water = 1.328ppm or mg/l of Fe

I don't think you can dose that much with micro as the copper in it is very high. For that same amount dose, you can 0.017ppm of copper.
Note that unlike flourish or TMG, lushgro micro lacks alot of other traces.