algae id/help

[lip]

Please help me id this algae. I am not sure if it is bba because is is kinda green in colour.

algae

I just descovered this algae. They are are starting to grow on the cyperus that are directly under the light. Over the last week, other kind of algae (e.g. hair algae) have also become a problem.

I think that my problem is the lack of N.

My tank is 4ft x 2 ft x 1.5 ft
water volume should be about 240litres.
light: 6 x 36W PL, 10 hours a day
Moderately planted with cyperus, java moss, hairgrass, sagittaria, rubin, lotus, tonina.
6 altums, 2 discus, 20 odd rummy nose, 6 balloon rams, a few otos and SAEs.

I tested for NO3 and PO4 yesterday (Sunday) before water change:

NO3 - about 0 to 1 ppm
PO4 - about 1 - 1.5 ppm
I have not found time to check the ph and kh, but the CO2 is about 3 bpm and i am using an external reactor.

After water change on Sun, I dose about
2ml of Flourish,
1 and half tsp of Flourish Equilirium (target 10 ppm of K), and
3 ml of Flourish N (about 1 ppm of N for my tank water vol, i think. i know it is a bit low but i just started using this when i tested last week that N is low)

I would be dosing the following as well on Tuesday and Thursday
For each day, 5 ppm of K (from K2SO4), 1 ml of Flourish, 3 ml of Flourish N.

The above is my usual fert routine except for Flourish N which I just started.

Other possibly relevant facts:
water turned cloudy over the last two weeks, possibly due to increased feeding, and death (and rotting - yucks) of several fishes which i did not discover in time. I have checked but don't think it is green water. Did two 10% water change last week on the days that i dosed the ferts.

sorry for the long msg.

I guess i need to cut off the algae infested cyperus and dose more N?[] I presume I can dose as much as 1 ppm of N a day. Is there anything i should be doing beside dosing N?

Would be grateful for any advice and help that anyone can give. Thanks in advance []

[PeterGwee]

Lip...make sure your CO2 is about 20-30ppm during the lights on period before embarking on your nutrient dosing. (CO2 deficient is as good as trying to start a car without a car key..LOL).

When your CO2 is good..you can look at the following

1)K should be around 20-30ppm ...(You need not use equilibrium if you have no apparent Ca or Mg deficiency)..try to use K2SO4..much cheaper. Once after 50% water change.

2)Dose Seachem Nitrogen or KNO3 to get about 10ppm.

3)Dose 15-20ml of flourish 2X per week..consider using seachem iron as flourish contain very little iron and dose the same amount as flourish.

4)Maintain NO3 and PO4 around 5-10ppm and 0.5ppm-1ppm (I do 1-2ppm as a safer range as organic PO4 might be inside and cannot be used by plants).

5)Finally...if your plant load is low...you can consider reducing the frequency of traces to once per week. NO3 and PO4 can also be dose the estimate way if you want to...Tom Barr recommends 3/4-1tsp of KNO3 and 6-8 grains of KH2PO4 2-3X per week.

[toledosun]

Hi Lip, I've the same problem. I spotted the same algae on my crypt (restrospirali) last night. Wondering if I should buy some malayan shrimps or SAEs to clean it up.

Anybody knows which algae eaters are most effective against this?

[Simon]

toledosun, the best way is still controlling yr nutrients.. but u can try pencilfish

[lip]

oops, CO2 should be 3 per second. [:]
I have corrected the original msg. I will go test the ph and kh as soon as I can, but don't think that CO2 is a problem because my plants are bubbling.

ehh so what algae is it? i can't seem to find the identity of this algae from the articles that i have read?

[chrissia]

The famous Black Brush Algae (BBA)!

[tawauboy]

lip,

go test your ph and kh.
if you can find time to test no3 and po4,i am sure that you can find time to test ph and kh. these tests takes a fraction of the time required for no3 or po4 test.

[AirStern]

looks like bba to me ... try burning it and see whether it turns white or not

[bclee]

Looks like your low NO3 might be causing the BBA.

Note that Seachem Flourish Nitrogen contains both nitrate and complexed ammonium. 1/2 of the N which come from the amonium will not turn up in the standard NO3 tests.

BC

[lip]

I am very grateful to all who have taken time to reply to this thread.

Peter, I dose Equilibrium because the plants appear to show signs of Ca deficiency (after months of 20ppm weekly dosage of K). Plants resume some growth after that for a while, then I realised that N is low as well. Couldn't cure the deficiency before the algae outbreak [] well, it is a learning process. []

Thx BC, i realised that about FL N. Just hope that it is accurate to simply multiply my NO3 result by 2. []

tauwaboy (and peter), actually i do have my ph and kh rssults from my present test kits (ph - 6 to 6.5, kh - 1 to 2). based on these readings alone the CO2 is within the range, but i am reluctant to rely on the results, because

1. i suspect my kh test kit is faulty (compared test results with fren's test kits a long time ago);
2. the ph colour chart is hell to read accurately
3. i add black water extract which will lower ph anyway.

So I was going to borrow a ph pen and buy a new kh test kit.
[] I no longer rely on test kits for CO2, just based on past test results (before black water extract was added) and the reaction of plants and fishes to the adjustments of CO2 injection.

Chrissia and airstern. Thx for the identification. I was expecting bba to be darker in colour.

toledosun, good luck with your tank. hope that simon's suggestion will help you. []

[toledosun]

Thanks Simon, will go slow on fertilizers.

[lip]

toledosun, i believe that the current "teaching" is not to reduce fertilisation, but to balance the nutrients dosage, depending on the needs of your tank. You probably need to test what is lacking (likely to be N) and supplement accordngly. if you could post your fertilisation regime and your test results, the experts here (clearly not me[] ) would be able to help you.

good luck!

[lip]

btw Peter, i note that you recommend 15-20ml of Floursih 2x a week. I am not surprised to know that i am under-dosing, but i didn't realise that i am under-dosing by so much. could you let me know how you manage to come out with your estimated dosage (i know this is not necessarily a science). Thx

[bclee]

Lip, let's do a calculation of how much Fe you are adding.

Seachem Equilibrium (new formulation) - 0.11% Fe
1.5 tsp = 8g ---> 0.11% x 8g Fe = 8.8mg
Dosed to 240L gives 8.8/240 mg/L = 0.04 mg/L Fe

Seachem Flourish - 0.3886% Fe
2ml ---> 0.3886% x 2 = 7.8mg
Dosed to 240L gives 7.8/240 mg/L = 0.03 mg/L Fe

Total Fe dosed = 0.07mg/L

The usual target of Fe is up to 0.7 ~ 1.0 mg/L.

I personally use exactly the same amount of Equilibrium and Flourish but my tank is only 50L.

Seachem Equilibrium (old formulation) - 0.47% Fe
1.5 tsp = 8g ---> 0.47% x 8g Fe = 37.6mg
Dosed to 50L gives 37.8/50 mg/L = 0.75 mg/L Fe

Seachem Flourish - 0.3886% Fe
2ml ---> 0.3886% x 2 = 7.8mg
Dosed to 240L gives 7.8/50 mg/L = 0.16 mg/L Fe

Total Fe dosed = 0.91mg/L

BC

[lip]

BC,

Thank you so much for your explanation. So if i dose 20ml of Flourish, i get about 0.3mg/l of Fe for each dose. I see... many thx!

Just a off tangent question - I understand that Flourish is low on Fe. So would the above calculation result in over-dosage of other minerals? Or is the over-dosage of little consequence?

[bclee]

Lip, you can probably start with 5ml x 2 per week and observe your plants. Then, you can up your dosage accordingly. You might find your plants grow greener if they are Fe limited (and not limited by other nutrient).

You can also up your Equilibrium dosage. I find that Equilibrium help me overcome my Ca and K deficiency problem. I keep my tank GH at 6~8 range (tap is about GH 3).

BC

[lip]

Thx BC. I will give it a try (up my N and trace) and see what the results are. keeping my finger crossed. very challenging i must say, thk goodness this hobby has tempered my impatient nature somewhat...[]

[toledosun]

Thanks Lip, only have test kits for Ph & Kh right now. Will probably run out and get the other test kits if algae persists.

[lip]

...The usual target of Fe is up to 0.7 ~ 1.0 mg/L....

---------------------

errrr... i just got confused and hope that someone (BC?) can help me with this.

I just refreshed my memory on the nutrient requirements, and note that there are several people advocating that Fe in the water column should not be more 0.1ppm.

0.1 ppm is a lot less than the 0.7 to 1ppm referred to by BC in the earlier advice.

Have I got my facts wrong somewhere?[]

[sherchoo]

I think it's been mentioned that N is low. Maybe this should be addressed first. KNO3 would be a good source since there is readily info on the dosage quantity.

Keep us updated on the results