new setup without base fert

[mordrake]

just setup my 1.5 feet using just gravel without any base fert. have java ferns, crypts and some other low maintenance plants in it.
will only use diy co2 n liquid fert for the tank.
without base fert, will my plants be ok? will the crypts grow properly?
also what fishes can be added (currently have a pair of holland rams n 10 boraras maculatas)

[juggler]

Plants take in nutrients not only from the leaves but the roots as well. And some plants especially like to draw nutrients from the roots. Eg. Sword Plants and Crypts. You may like to insert some fertiliser pellets at the roots of the Crypts. eg. Jobe Sticks (not too much!) or Root Monsters.

[mordrake]

thks. do i just insert fert sticks near the crypts or can i put them for the other plants as well. my background plants are mainly stem plants

[juggler]

You may like to observe first if the liquid fert is sufficient for those stem plants. Then only consider root feeding.
As yours is a new tank and you did not use base fert, it takes many months before enough mulm can accumulate in your gravel that the plant roots can draw nutrients from.

[Nature]

bro juggler u miss something ...
FISH DROPLET(****)
also vitamin....[]

[FC]

Juggler,

Regarding Jobestick, fert leak aside, does it cause problem to the plant if too many are placed directly at the roots? If it does, then, what's the guideline?

I ask because I am trying this method at the moment.

Thanks.

(Please check PM)

[geoffrey]

FC,

Leaching aside, one problem I encountered is that roots of plants tend to wrap themselves around the Fertiliser balls, jobe etc. So when you pull them out, they get pull out together.

BTW, I think your injecting PO4 into the substrate is a good idea, why switch? Unless you planning to go long vacation? Anyway, I dose PO4 directly into water column and so far so good. Anything I should watch out for?

[juggler]

FC: I usually put half a Horti stick for my E.oriental say about once a month. And it always triggers a spurt of nice growth, sometimes plantlets. For other plants, I don't use the Horti stick.

[CK Yeo]

It is ok to have no base fertilizers, but you will have to learn to manage liquid fertilizers (especially elements N, P and K). It is not necessary to insert jobe sticks or monster balls in the substrate if you manage your water column fertilization properly.

Regarding fishes, you can get anything that pleases your eye as long as they are not herbivors. Pls also take note that for such a small tank, the water chemistry tends to be very volatile/dynamic, therefore unforgiving. So try not to overload the tank with too many fishes and dose everything with moderation.

ck

[mordrake]

with a pair of holland rams and 10 b.maculatas in the tank, i don't think i will be adding much more. maybe just a handful of yamatos if algae sets in. will go TB tonight n look see

[FC]

Geoffrey and Juggler, thanks for the response.

"I think your injecting PO4 into the substrate is a good idea, why switch?quot;

I am thinking that solid ferts with macros might last for a longer period in the substrate. I have thick gravel, I insert full stick in vertical position deep in the gravel, I hope it to last 6 months or more this way.

I need to know if too many inserts within small areas would kill the roots or not. I had placed alot under my Ludwigia (about 1 full stick vs 3 stalks. note they are densely planted, so are the sticks) because I would not be able to access the Ludwigia by the time they grew up. I mean they will be very dense and cover large area, and I do not want to ply open them to insert fert. So far, the plant response well by having branchings from the stem's nodes. My target is to get branching at every stem nodes throughout the stem which I did with my injection method.


"Anyway, I dose PO4 directly into water column and so far so good. Anything I should watch out for?quot;

One of my liquid fert regime I use is that I dose once, max twice, in full dose for both micro and macros per week. In this way, I would have healthy plant growth without the algae. As we know, tall plants will take the nutrients up much quickly then algae, my method is meant to feed the plants well and stuff the algae.

The full dose will be exhausted in 2~3 days. So, the algae in my tank, if any, will only have 2~3 days chance to pick themselve up.

I hope that helps in your doubt.

The only algae I am still fighting is on the glass walls. I am still finding ways to eliminate/reduce them. I hate the wiping works.

[tawauboy]

i believe too much fertiliser will cause 'fertiliser burn' just like terrestrial plants. but i don't know how much is too much. so far i am inserting 2 horti tabs near the roots of the echinodorus monthly. it is emersed now and throws out leaves bigger than my palm. similar growth for tiger lotus as well.
i switched from horti sticks to horti tabs. horti stick seems not to disintegrate but remains mushy and makes a mess whenever there is any uprooting. horti tabs will disintegrate.

[FC]

tawauboy, thanks.

"i switched from horti sticks to horti tabs."
The tabs also include some micros like Fe too. I was thinking of this too but I chose sticks because noone ever mention about tabs.

How long have you used the tabs? How do they perform?

[mordrake]

seems like i have to check out the tabs too (for my crypts).
also, will feeding of bloodworms twice daily (morn & night) cause a high lvl of nitrate?
dunno whether my holland rams n maculata eat sera flakes

[geoffrey]

FC,

-The full dose will be exhausted in 2~3 days.

Yes, that I noticed too. So I have twice weekly feeding for plants too.

-The only algae I am still fighting is on the glass walls. I am still finding ways to eliminate/reduce them. I hate the wiping works.

That is something I hate to do too and is also trying to fix. Lets update all once we find out how to do it.

Hey FC, do you have problems with Ca? Is it something that you have to add frequently? What about Mg?

[vinz]

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On 4/22/2003 10:34:03 AM

Plants take in nutrients not only from the leaves but the roots as well. And some plants especially like to draw nutrients from the roots. Eg. Sword Plants and Crypts. You may like to insert some fertiliser pellets at the roots of the Crypts. eg. Jobe Sticks (not too much!) or Root Monsters.
----------------

Jobe and Root Monsters provide different ferts. Jobe (or Horti and other terrestrial ferts) is N-P-K only and should be used sparingly and buried deeply. Root Monsters (JBL 7-balls, Seachem Florish Tabs, and other aquatic root fertilisers) on the other hand provide most of the rest of the required ferts.

In the case of base fertless subsrate, aquatic root fertilisers will help a lot.

[tawauboy]

FC,

been using horti tabs for 4 months now.
as good as horti sticks.
only drawback, harder to insert into the gravel.

e. stellata with horti tabs near the roots grows by about 12" in height every 2 weeks and stems grow to about in diameter.

[bclee]

I remembered root monster contain some K and P (listed as K2O and P2O5) and maybe some N. OTOH, some Horti sticks/tabs contain Ca, Mg, Fe, Mn, etc. Maybe you should check the contents before deciding what to add.

BC

[vinz]

Oh ok, I've never checked out the ingredients of Horti. Jobes for Aquatic Plants and Jobes for Palms/Ferns only list N, P and K, if I remember correctly.

[mordrake]

this is my setup after some adding in the diy co2
current fishload;
1 pair adult holland rams
10 boraras maculata
4 cardinals
1 sae
7 bee shrimps
abit too much? i know sae n shrimps abit early too add since no algae yet

also bought JBL ferropol as liquid fert - good?
haven't used it though