The Dispute on the Mosses'' names

[timebomb]

Hi, fellas,

This topic about the various names given to different aquatic mosses sold in local fish shops has come up time and again in this forum. Until you give some samples to an expert - a biologist or someone who knows how to tell the difference between mosses - we can argue until the cows come home but never find the correct answers.

I don't know the correct names too but I can tell you a bit about the history of the various mosses found in our local fish shops. Actually, the names of the mosses depend a lot on who's doing the calling.

I'm probably the only one here qualified to tell you the history because I've been in this hobby for more than 30 years and I'm old. You know you're old when every other conversation you start begins with the phrase "In the old days......"

Well, in the old days.......

before there was a "planted tank" scene, there was only one moss - Java Moss (scientific name: Vesicularia dubyana). In those days, hardly any fish shop sells aquatic plants so even Java Moss was difficult to find. You can see how Java Moss looks like by going to this page on my website:

http://www.killies.com/Killieplants.htm

There's no dispute about the identity and scientific name of Java Moss. If any fish shop owner tells you otherwise, ignore him; he's either bluffing you or he's indulging in *sales talk*.

Then, about 10 years ago, a fish shop named "Crowntol" opened along Roberts Lane. The display tanks in Crowntol's were the most beautiful planted tanks ever. Up till this day, I've not seen more beautiful tanks. I spent many weekends visiting Crowntol and looking at their tanks. They had in one of their display tanks a moss wall. The moss looks nothing like Java but has very well-defined triangular shapes. The fronds hang down. I tried a couple of times to obtain some of this moss but couldn't. They won't sell unless you buy the whole setup. I'm just a stingy hobbyist so I wasn't prepared to pay a few thousand dollars buying a tank just to get my hands on some moss. I didn't know the name of the moss then so I called it "Christmas Moss" because the fronds, when hanging down, look like a Christmas tree. Unknown to me then, the good folks in Crowntol call the moss "3 sided moss" in Mandarin. In English, it would translate into "Triangular Moss".

For a long time, I hunted high and low for the "3 sided Moss". I asked many fish shop owners/aquatic plant importers for help but not only they couldn't help me, almost all of them didn't know what plant I was talking about.

Until one day, when I bought some Java Moss, I discovered within the bunch some strange looking fronds which I realised to be the moss I was looking for - Christmas Moss. I managed, from about 4 fronds, to grow heaps of them. In the last few years, I must have given away several kilograms of "Christmas Moss". The "Christmas" name eventually became more popular than the "Triangular" name because of the power of the internet. Credence was also given to the "Christmas" name after my friend, James Lim, the publisher of the AquaJournal used this name in one of his magazines. James thought then, that the moss was "Amazonion Willow Moss" but I believe he made a mistake.

To see how the "Christmas Moss" looks like, visit my other page on my website at:

http://www.killies.com/MossesFerns.htm

A few years after the internet came to Singapore, a "planted tank" scene started to thrive and many fish shops in Singapore started selling aquatic plants. A new moss then made its appearance. Like the "Christmas Moss", this new moss was also from Taiwan. It looks very much like the "Christmas" but the shapes of the fronds were less triangular. It became known as the "Taiwan Moss".

A few enterprising hobbyists began selling stuff over the internet and one of them gave a new name to the "Taiwan Moss". He called it "Mini Moss".

About a year ago, I met a group of hobbyists in this forum and one of them, Choy, gave me some moss which he found at the Bukit Timah area. He

[benetay]

Hmm very informative...and yes there has been many of such arguement on what moss is this..It's pretty difficult to see the difference in different condition in different tanks.

Thumbs up![]

[loupgarou]

what you need is someone to take a picture in side by side in an aquarium.. heh

[Nicky]

So finally someone agrees that the 'upwards-growing moss' (of Sam Pet) is not the same as the triangular 'Christmas moss'.

I believe that under different conditions, the same moss can have quite different look. Example: I got the so-call 'Taiwan moss' from NA. I never achieve the 'long-overhanging-fronds' that Chan achieved in the small display tank behind the tank opposite the counter. Chan told me that he seldom fertilised that tank whereas I dose every thing I can get hold of, frequently. My 'taiwan-moss' looks very much like what people call 'mini-moss' and I think it is the same moss.

Another thing about moss is that LFS/Farms don't seemed to be able to keep to its purity. Very often you got a log full of Taiwan, Java, Christmas and riccia all mixed onto one. And depending on what the owner believes, he will call all the seemingly-different-mosses as a specific name and sell you as such. And the damn thing is that, riccia and moss especially java grow like weed. Once introduced, I don't have any idea how to rid them.

I agree with Chris, that someone who got good photography skills should take a picture and end this confusion on mosses once and for all. I was just at this Pasir-Ris farmway 2 (I think) where there were display of planted tanks in air-con room. That owner was telling me that the 'triangular, downwards-hanging-fronds' was 'Taiwan-moRe' (?!?).

Anyway anyone got the 'Sam Pet upward growing moss' to spare? I got the following to trade/sale:

1. Christmas Moss
2. Taiwan Moss
3. Java Moss.

If so pls PM me.

[hwchoy]

Timebomb, what a wonderful story. When you get older you could also start the story with "lim peh ka li kong"

Anyway, just to add to the story. Subzero (Ben) was the one who found the Bukit Timah moss during one of his outings, submersed in a stream. He gave me some which I tied to a steel mesh and planted it side-by-side with Christmas moss from Gen-X. This little tank was in my office so the cold water was optimal for the moss. Both grew superbly, both exhibit triangular fronds, although the Christmas moss is better defined (the triangular shape). However both moss differs in colour (the Bukit Timah moss is brighter green) and texture (the Bukit Timah moss is softer to the touch). If you look at them individually, it will be very difficult to tell them apart.

[DEA]

dispute? what dispute?

i dunno what it's called []
see, no dispute

[hwchoy]

maybe you change the title to: "MOSS - the never ending story" [:]

[BFG]

or One Moss To Control All The Moss.

[geoffrey]

Ahhh.... anyone know who's Kate Moss? You think she will grow in water??

[FC]

Good information!

Timebomb is one of the two most "lao ciao" I know, the other is his friend, Edward, a true-blue expert in planted tank.
They certainly qualified to use "lim peh kali kong" as topic openers, no dispute.

[anttz]

To all the "lao ciao",

Bioplast also have those upward growing moss. Never been to Sam Yick at United Sq but is the two moss the same?

[pipsqueak]

The "upward growing moss" at Sams united square and Bioplast...could it possibly be Pellia endiviifolia? Its a liverwort, according to the Oriental Plant Handbook..
Or is it entirely a different species?

[timebomb]

The "upward growing moss" at Sams united square and Bioplast...could it possibly be Pellia endiviifolia? Its a liverwort, according to the Oriental Plant Handbook..
Or is it entirely a different species?
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Sio ti ka li kong hor:

The upward growing plant in Bioplast is the Pellia endiviifolia which is a liverwort. Sam's at United Square has the Pellia too in emmersed form growing in some of their terrarium tanks. The Pellia is also known as "Giant riccia" in Mandarin.

The upward growing moss found at Sam's is definitely a moss and not a liverwort. But the last time I was there, they don't have this moss for sale anymore. I may have bought the last bunch.

Loh K L

[budak]

Sam YIck united square doesn't have Pellia... so far only seen it in Pet Safari, BIoplast, my own tank and somewhere else for me to know. Pellia is like riccia, only with much thicker and dark green thallus. I don't understand why the United Sq staff keep on saying the thin, upward-growing plant is Xmas moss.... looks nothing like it.

God knows how many thousands of species of moss are potentially good aquarium plants, but unless some botanist actually takes a close look at their morphology/biology, we can post till kingdom come about our own subjective evaluation.

[timebomb]

Sam YIck united square doesn't have Pellia...
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Oh, they do, my friend. Take a look at the terrarium tanks located at the bottom row next time you are there. Their Pellia are grown emmersed.

Loh K L

[budak]

Oh, ok... didn't notice cos i never bothered much the terrarium tanks.

[timebomb]

Hi, fellas,

If you have never seen the Upward-growing moss in Sam Yick and the Pellia endiviifolia before, take a look at my page on:

http://www.killies.com/Killieplants.htm

I just uploaded the pictures.

Loh K L

[pipsqueak]

The bukit timah moss...I wonder if its indigenous, or someone chucked a certain moss there and it mutated/conformed accordingly to the water conditions..
Oh btw, if you're interested timebomb, Biotope brought in willow moss.

[hwchoy]

No no, the little Bioplast pine-trees are not the Pellia (big riccia). They look like upside down bottle brush bu the "bristles" are quite far apart. I have also seen the Sam Yick Marine Parade upward pointng moss which looks nothing like Christmas moss but tiny chamber-brushes (for your AR15), somewhat like Bioplast's "pine-trees" but tinier and the "bristles" very close together. whew!

Yimin, you know which one I mean? It is the guppy tank at the rear right bottom (viewed from outside).

[anttz]

Bioplast moss definitely not the Pellia (big riccia).

As what hwchoy describe "tiny chamber-brushes (for your AR15), somewhat like "pine-trees" but tinier and the "bristles" very close together."