peat... tried before?

[scang7]

Hi,

Will like to know if anyone has any experience in using peat before? Tried a bag of peat over the weekend, wanting to create a softer and more acidic water condition. However i realised that my water started to have a yellowish stain.

1. Anyone knows how to remove the stain?
2. Is there other brands of peat that i can use that will not stain the water. (FYI i am using the peat moss from ISTA. A bag of it which i place in the canister filter.)
3. Any other ways to get desired water effect.

Thanks

[PeterGwee]

Use of peat for a planted tank would screw up your ability to use the pH/KH relationship to determine your CO2 level...Are you trying to breed the fish?

[scang7]

nope... not trying to breed any fish. Am actually trying to change the water condition. Understand that some of the plants will require a slightly more acidic condition to thrive. My initial water parameters are kH 4, pH 6.8 and gH 8. After which the new values are kH 2, pH 6.4 and gH 5.

what are the further downside of using peat? dun seemed to be able to get much over the net.

Thanks

[pipsqueak]

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On 5/7/2003 11:18:57 AM

Hi,

Will like to know if anyone has any experience in using peat before? Tried a bag of peat over the weekend, wanting to create a softer and more acidic water condition. However i realised that my water started to have a yellowish stain.

1. Anyone knows how to remove the stain?
Carbon activated filter, but this will filter out the essential nutrients for plants too, not reccomended
2. Is there other brands of peat that i can use that will not stain the water. (FYI i am using the peat moss from ISTA. A bag of it which i place in the canister filter.)
I think peat will definitely stain water, correct me i'f I'm wrong. Alternatives as far as I know to lower ph, increase co2, use soil which has ability to lower ph (Ada Aquasoil)
3. Any other ways to get desired water effect.
acidic? Injecting more co2 lowers ph I think.

You can try finding out more about the Sera bio peat(?) that you're suppose to place inside your canister filter. I'm not sure if it stains the water though. It comes in a neat little bag.


Thanks
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[PeterGwee]

Plants need CO2 and GH(Mg/Ca) and not some low pH....remove this 2 and you would have poor growth and worst algae.

[scang7]

hmmm... thanks for the feedback. Think am a little confused here. Guess there are differnt ways that people see effective plant growth. Actually had the thought of changing the parameters of my tank cos of my previous discussion with regards to my tonina not doing well. Was actually told that an acidic water may be good for it...

[checkerboard]

if you are particular abt the pH/kH/CO2 relantionship, i think peat is a wonderful addition. Personally, my tonina does very well in peaty water.

actually, i quite like the brownish water, very natural, think the fishes likes it too!

[juggler]

----------------
On 5/7/2003 11:18:57 AM

Hi,

Will like to know if anyone has any experience in using peat before? Tried a bag of peat over the weekend, wanting to create a softer and more acidic water condition. However i realised that my water started to have a yellowish stain.

1. Anyone knows how to remove the stain?
2. Is there other brands of peat that i can use that will not stain the water. (FYI i am using the peat moss from ISTA. A bag of it which i place in the canister filter.)
3. Any other ways to get desired water effect.

Thanks
----------------

I used cocopeat (made from coconut husks) so I guess that is not really peat. It did not stain the water nor lower the pH excessively. About 6.8 only. I had tested various soils in cups of water before deciding which to use as substrate for my planted tank.

For your case, since it is a planted tank, it is advisable to increase CO2 injection for lower pH.

[scang7]

think i have came across the option of using more co2 but due to a lack of budget, could not afford a co2 system. so using diy instead, which i think an increase in co2 will be a little tough...

[bclee]

You can try 2 bottles of DIY CO2.

If you alternate the recharging of the bottles, it will also give you more consitent CO2 flow.

BC

[FC]

May I know what is the difference it make, in conditioning the water, between adding black water (there are peat extracts, etc) and placing peat bag in the filter?

[juggler]

Some folks also used Ketapang leaves especially when breeding Apistos. I found that it lowers pH too. But also stain the water brown. It's free though.

[Allen_1971]

Adding peat into the water will stain in brown, same as black water extract... cuz thats exactly what blackwater extract is... []

Anyway, increaseing the acidity of the water could help for some plants. Particularly red plants. In general acidity could help with the redness of some plants. Also, IF iron influences the redness of plants, then a more acidic substrate will help with iron uptake.

Overall though, peat in the water has questionable value... peat in the substrate is a whole different ball game... there it is useful.

As for screwing up the ph/kh/co2, you just need to take note of the difference that the additional peat causes and compensate for it... so if adding peat shifts your ph 0.2, then add 0.2 to your calculations... at least thats what I would do.

[Plantbrain]

Plants do not perfer a pH or low KH. They want CO2. pH is not a nutrient. CO2 is.

I had no trouble growing 200-300sp of plants at 7.4pH and a KH of 20 and GH of 22. I also have no trouble growing the same plants are moderate and softer waters. Don't drop below around 3GH/KH.

GH, Mg and Ca, are nutrients. You need these.

As far as anion and cation issues, the substrate is more reductive and is the place for uptake of some nutrients in addition to the leaf uptake. Plants can exist entirely on the water column for this supply but some iron in the substrate will help any tank. Good to have some in both places.

Plants have no problem taking these nutrients in if they have relatively enough available to them, they are not static, they actively pump out H+'s to bring in a number of different nutrients both outside and inside the cells.

Peat is good in the substrate, particularly deeper. It helps jump start the tank until the plant roots are more established and have colonized a fair amount of the substrate. I add about a handful of ground peat per 1/8 m^2 to the bottom layer of my gravel. I also add detritus from an establised tank. This jumps starts a tank very well.

If you want to help your plants grow better, add CO2. 40+% of the plant is Carbon. RO water, peat water will not grow plants any better than hard water. Plants need light, CO2 and nutrients to grow well. Stick with those.
Peat water will help some Apisto's and Killis breed but I don't use peat for the plants water make up, just the substrate.

Get away from the myth that plants like/prefer soft water. I can show plenty of natural systems that are counter to this here and so can Tropica.

For further reading : "Limnology of Humic Waters"

Regards,
Tom Barr