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Thread: Cardinal Jumbo size XXL

  1. #1
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    Cardinal Jumbo size XXL

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    Good Morning everyone,

    I have been in this hobby for 1 year.

    Recently, I developed a keen interested on realing a big cardinal, after seeing the beautiful species swimming around, with its deep red color.

    My tank is 3ft matured, have been in for almost 1 year and I have keen only 80 small cardinal and 30 big cardinal, 10 Harlequin Rasbora, 8 Pink danio, 2 zebra danio plus some cherry shrimps, 2 otto, 10 yamato.

    My 3ft tank parameter:
    GH: 60
    KH: 40
    PH: 6.8-7.0
    No2: 0
    No3: 20
    C02: 3 bps.
    temp: 26-28 with fan (no chiller)

    planted with java moss wall, driftwood with us fisidden and mose.
    foreground: japanese hair grass and glosso

    My problem is with big XXL cardinal.
    I have researched and read from internet, they said Cardinal Tetras needs lower ph like 5.5 -6 PH ?

    I have bought XXL cardinal but have not been able to keep successfully, it does about 1-2 weeks then die off, with tail fin rot, a batch of 30 pieces for $50. And I have not given up, and I tried again, and it dies again, totally loss $100. Then, I thought it is because it caught wild so, it dies off easily. and a 3rd time, is when I visited a rainbow fish farm, and saw their big XXL cardinal also. They told me their XXL cardinal (6 cm long) are kept from small, not a wild caught. So, its adoptability and survival rate is higher. They are expensive, cost $2.5 each. I have bought another 10 pieces (dare not anymore, only 10 pieces). But again, it slow die off in 2-3 weeks with same symptom : with tail fin rot.

    Sigh....? thinking of giving up the hope of have big XXL cardinal.

    but my small cardinal and others fishes and shrimps are doing fine.

    What wrong with those XXL cardinal ?

    please kind hearted soul, please advice ?

    Thanks,
    Warren

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    Re: Cardinal Jumpo size XXL

    Wild caught cardinals require time and care to acclimatise to a new tank setting. In the farms they are kept in acidic water.

    Most often, the problem is not being to feed them, or entice them to eat dry food like pellets. Wild-caught cardinals will first require live foods and slowly switch to a mix of dry and frozen foods if necessary.

    My advice is to stay away from XXL Cardinals, if you cannot match their requirements. The small cardinals are tank-bred fish from farms elsewhere, so they are more or less used to other conditions.

    The fin rot is almost always due to a bacterial infection caused by an injury or damage to the fins. They might have had the problem back at the dealer's place, and when you moved them into the new tank, it caused them too much stress and the bacteria managed to overpower their immune system.

    This is why most people who buy wild fish, will always quarantine their fish before putting them into the display tank. It is not easy since wild fish can come with all sorts of parasites/diseases in and outside.
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    Re: Cardinal Jumpo size XXL

    Hi Stormhawk,
    thanks for your advice.
    What a coincidence ! I also stay in bt batok.
    back to the topic, you have mentioned cardinal need acidic water.
    So, what is the PH required for cardinal ?
    I have read some say 5-6PH some say 6-7PH is ok.
    the 2 places where I have bought Jumpo cardinal, they all told me PH 6-7PH is ok.
    in the meanwhile, I have already did some effort, like putting the sera super peat inside my Eheim Pro II 2028, but PH is still hovering 6.6-6.8, only reduce 0.2.
    But the funny part is the small cardinal are all doing fine. Only big cardinal show signs and symptom of dying.
    Initially, I thought maybe I am unlucky to buy a "not so good" batch of cardinal. But I tried again, this time in difference LFS, but it is still the same symtom and end up with the same result - D.I.E
    So, can you suggest any thing about my tank PH ?
    do I need to do anything else ?
    is my other water parameters look fine from your angle of expert ?
    GH: 60
    KH: 40
    PH: 6.8-7.0
    No2: 0
    No3: 20
    C02: 3 bps.
    temp: 26-28 with fan (no chiller)
    Eheim Pro II 2028

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    Re: Cardinal Jumpo size XXL

    pH 6.8 - 7 might be fine for the smaller cardinals since they are probably used to it, but you can try and lower it to around pH 6 - 6.4. The other parameters you mentioned are fine. As for lowering pH, other than peat, you can put in some ketapang (Sea Almond) leaves, or use apple cider vinegar in stages.

    However, I think you should avoid XXL Cardinals though. Some others have had problems with their XL-XXL cardinals because they wouldn't eat and die soon after. If your smaller cardinals and other fish are doing fine, I don't think it's worth the time to reduce the pH further since your small cardinals will eventually grow big in time.
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    Re: Cardinal Jumpo size XXL

    What Stormhawk said is absolutely correct. Those XXL cardinals are very weak. Just get those normal size cardinals, they grow up pretty fast, under good condition.

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    Re: Cardinal Jumpo size XXL

    Get from a reputable fish shop/farm (recommend get from Gan fish farm, higher survival rate due to good acclimatization by them).

    If not, wait for a year, the small cardinals (probably able to adapt better than bigger or older ones), they should be XL soon.
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    Re: Cardinal Jumpo size XXL

    Most of the big cardinal need k leaf water to survive. If u really want to keep them. Keep them in black water then transfer add water till it clear for about a month or more will be good enough.
    Rot tail is not due to infection but due to the tetra cannot accept the change in water perimeter
    Last edited by lyan; 4th Jan 2010 at 16:06. Reason: Add more
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    Re: Cardinal Jumpo size XXL

    thanks for all Cardinal "Sifu" advices.
    All advices and info are noted.

    Yes, this is my 3rd time of jumbo XXL cardinal.
    today, 6 more die.
    Really don't know what to do... quite helpless to see them die one by one on each day.
    Already spent lots of money, to buy all those testing kits
    and apparent, as mentioned by above Sifus, the water parameters are fine.
    Even when to buy Sera Peat moss, and put inside my eheim Pro 2 2028 canister.
    Now, the PH is hovering around 6.2- 6.6
    I have done all I can. I even make all the trip down, just to buy Ketapang leaves.
    As for the food, I bought the blood worm and extra brand of "Tetra Mint" from germany.
    I don't face any problem with feeding.
    Jumpo XXL cardinal, they are eating the blood worm and yummy tetra min
    So feeding and their diet is not an issue from me. They are eat well.
    But really, don't understand, why every next day, I will notice a new developed of fit root over the tails or some in shoulder. White color rot.

    Summary of what I have done:
    bought testing kits and tested, water parameter is fine.
    bought ultra black water specially designed for cardinal, to increase the acid level (reduce PH)
    bought sera peat moss and inside the filter
    bought K leave and put inside the tank, so cardinal card hide.
    Bought blood worm and they eat like crazy.
    All efforts and money spent, even I have to compromise my fish tank clearity, as now it is become yellow color, compare to before, it was crystal clear water.

    Last night, stay till 2:30a.m , But still quite helpless... as jumpo Cardinal is dying one by one.


    Any XXL / Jumpo Cardinal Sifu, Expert, Pro helps and advices ?
    Thanks in advance for all the advices,

    regards,
    Warren
    Last edited by warrenlee; 5th Jan 2010 at 11:04. Reason: forget name

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    Re: Cardinal Jumpo size XXL

    Quote Originally Posted by lyan View Post
    Rot tail is not due to infection but due to the tetra cannot accept the change in water perimeter
    Fin rot is a bacterial condition. It can be made worst by sudden changes in water parameter, but it is still caused by bacteria. The discoloration and fin rotting experienced by warrenlee on his cardinals are usually due to bacterial infections. It could even be parasitic.

    Warren, if it's not food that is the question, it might be stress from importation. Since it is so difficult to keep them alive, in your case, I would still tell you to stay away from them. Like jhseah, I do agree, purchasing them directly from Gan's Fish Farm at LCK is the best bet since they are already acclimatised to local conditions, but as with all things, your luck with them will vary. You've already done everything you can, and if it still doesn't work, just stick with the small ones.

    From experience, those small ones can grow to XL size in roughly 5-6 months with good feedings and good water conditions. Plus if the LFS really raised them in their tanks, I do not doubt it. But certain fish, once moved from their original home, in this case LFS tank, they might not get used to new surroundings at all, no matter how you try.
    Last edited by stormhawk; 5th Jan 2010 at 19:40.
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    Re: Cardinal Jumbo size XXL

    Thanks StormHawk for all your useful advices.
    As for the sudden changes of temperature, it does not fluctuate much, it is only around 1 degree difference.

    In the afternoon, it is around 28.2 degree and evening it hover around 27 degree, with FAN.

    ok, I guess I have to give up those jumpo cardinal.

    Thanks for all experts and sifu advices.

    Appreciated,
    Warren

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    Re: Cardinal Jumbo size XXL

    I always buy small neons/cardinals and make them grow to XL size.
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    Re: Cardinal Jumbo size XXL

    bro i've been to a fish farm which breeds cardinals. when i took a look at their breeding tank (simple setup, just ketapang leaves and bubble filter) they also had a ph meter set at 6.6 bro. maybe you might want to lower the ph slightly to match this value.
    Yecch!

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    Re: Cardinal Jumbo size XXL

    hi Bro Desewer,

    I have tried but failed.
    I have put peak moss now my PH is good, around 6.2-6.6 only.
    I also have Ketapang leaves inside the tank.

    But really no use. Those Jumpo XXL cardinal just die only by one. Now, out of 50 pieces, I only left around 6 pieces. Their diet is ok, they eat, but it is just the fit rot.

    Check many times of my water parameter, on GH, KH, PH and etc, they are good, as the above sifu said.

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    Re: Cardinal Jumbo size XXL

    Hi Warren,

    My wife bought 50 small cardinals from Seaview last month for my 6ft palu. Guess what, out of 50 , only 2 are missing but all very healthy, full brilliant colour and fast growing.

    I dont see why we need a jumbo cardinals , maybe you just want instant jumbo cardinals.

    Dont loose heart, bro if this doesnt work well with you. Remember our passion always there and will never go die, agree?
    cheers
    eddy planer

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    Re: Cardinal Jumbo size XXL

    I've had a similar experience with XL Cardinals, but it's the reversed. I wanted to increase the number of XLs I had, and bought additional L size ones.

    The XLs died off slowly in a span of 2-3wks. No sign of any disease etc.
    Tank has been very stable (>1yr), and PH is at 6.2-4.

    Can it be that the different sizes don't mix well? Seems highly unlikely, but I can't think of any other reason given the exist ones died, but the new entrants survived.

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    Re: Cardinal Jumbo size XXL

    Quote Originally Posted by neverwalkalone View Post
    Can it be that the different sizes don't mix well? Seems highly unlikely, but I can't think of any other reason given the exist ones died, but the new entrants survived.
    I believe the new cardinals might carry a disease they are already immune to and spread it to the old batch. Some diseases might not be that obvious and difficult to notice.
    chongyu

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    Re: Cardinal Jumbo size XXL

    Stormy, you can goto his house and take a look.

    Warren,
    You have an old uncle that lives near you but his opening time of LFS is very uncertain. Beside Blk 153, (I am not sure if it is Blk 154a) there is a market there, the LFS uncle speaks english. You could approach him and get some good advice. The fish there are very stable. Wilfred got his fish and die off, but he pay slightly higher at this uncle's shop and the fish survived.

    If white spots are serious, then you cannot rely on OceanFree series. You have to go one gear higher to Aquamedi series. The next round that you try, I suggest about 5-6 XL. If they can survive, slowly increase that amount. Note that each of the batch you must learn to quarantine first. After about 2-3 weeks of quarantine period, if the fish are stable then you intro to the new/main tank. Conditions of the two tanks should be kept as close as possible.

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