After 5 years, finally take up planted tank again

[collins]

It has been 5 years since my last planted tank. After seeing the many well-landscaped tanks in the gallery section, I finally could not suppress my urge any more and decided to set up a 4ft planted tank.

I took over a 4ft bare tank that is placed at the lobby of my boarding school. Due to overfeeding by some students who dumped abt 0.8kg of fish food in 3 weeks, all fishes died as decomping food matters release loads of toxin. The canister filter looked like a jar of red bean soup when i washed it.

1st weeks: Laid up gravel and introduced 25 "kamikaze" red molly to cycle the tank. This poor fish suffered 1/3 casualty.

2nd week: As the filter still contain some old filter media, bacteria colony was quickly re-established. Red molly ceased to die and appeared to be pretty happy in the tank. Plants were introduced. At the end of 2nd week, most of the plants seemed to adapt well to the environment as fresh roots extend from the stem, setting foot into the gravel. The landscaping can be more balanced and interesting by placing one more large driftwood in the right half of the tank, but i ran out of budget. hehe.

Now coming to 3rd week soon, plan to add some yamato shrimps and 6 angle fish. Molly will be moved out and set free into a big pond nearby. In exchange for their forced sacrifice, they will be rewarded permanent freedom and liberty.

I am still contemplating on how to further improve the lanscaping. Please feel free to share your comments. I hope to learn much from you fellow hobbists.

[equidorz]

Are the foreground plants hairgrass? If so i suggest you spread them into smaller clumps and also give it a trim to let the hairgrass grow faster.

[kenny]

I think nowadays people tend to do a "fishless cycle", meaning no live fish used during the first few weeks of cycling. And usually plants are grown first before slowly adding fish into the tank. these would prevent, or at least lessen the number of casualties. I think you might have done things in the opposite sequence...

Things have changed over the past 5 years and people have been more aware and conscientious about the welfare of fishes( or so I thought). Leaving happily ignorant newcomers out (such as the zealous students), I didn't think any experienced fish keepers actually will buy fish with the intention of sacrificing (my interpretation of "kamikaze") them after the cycling process, and wash their hands off the fortunate remaining ones by dumping them somewhere else. I wish the Mollies (or platies) and those black tetras were treated with more humility, like your future shrimps and angle fish would. Yes, I am quite disturbed by your "reward" for the fish, which by the way looks more likely to be Platies instead of Mollies, so please pardon my not-so-kind words.

Some kind soul with enough tank space might want to adopt the trash fish , if you are still decided on throwing them away.

[Fuzzy]

I think nowadays people tend to do a "fishless cycle", meaning no live fish used during the first few weeks of cycling. And usually plants are grown first before slowly adding fish into the tank. these would prevent, or at least lessen the number of casualties. I think you might have done things in the opposite sequence...

Things have changed over the past 5 years and people have been more aware and conscientious about the welfare of fishes( or so I thought). Leaving happily ignorant newcomers out (such as the zealous students), I didn't think any experienced fish keepers actually will buy fish with the intention of sacrificing (my interpretation of "kamikaze") them after the cycling process, and wash their hands off the fortunate remaining ones by dumping them somewhere else. I wish the Mollies (or platies) and those black tetras were treated with more humility, like your future shrimps and angle fish would. Yes, I am quite disturbed by your "reward" for the fish, which by the way looks more likely to be Platies instead of Mollies, so please pardon my not-so-kind words.

Some kind soul with enough tank space might want to adopt the trash fish , if you are still decided on throwing them away.

I was going to say something very similar but decided against it, I'm glad other people feel the same way about the treatment of livestock.

[Aquanoob]

Yes, this should not be the way to treat the fish. I think you belongs to the school of "Plant and Fish", which fish is treated as a supporting role, and the main actor is the plant scaping, but you still shouldn't treat them that way.
A lot of members here will gladly take your fish if you should decided to give or sell them away.

Putting them into a pond is not setting them free, it maybe making them food to the lurking predators that may be inside the pond, and you are also causing disturbance and imbalance in the pond habitat and ecosystem.
Think thrice and think again.

[collins]

Hi, maybe my choice of words has caused some misunderstanding. Describing the fish as kamikaze does not mean I treat them as disposable. This fish comes at S$2 dollar a pack as feeder fish. Quite a number of them were observed to carry fungus infection and fin rot. I let the fish stablize and applied medication immediately. The first batch of fish into the tank is always subject to higher risk of casulties as we all know. some fish has to go in to test the water sooner or later. All casualties occurred in the first 3 days and no more death after applying medication. Those black tetras are temporary residents from my friend who was revamping his fish tank. The canister filter already contains seasoned biorings and cotton wools. I believe setting the fish free is much more humane and responsible than letting them wait to be fed to big fish as food in another tank. In fact i very much agree with what you said abt treating life with respect. That is exactly why i gave up my aquarium 5 years ago cos nobody else bothered to maintain the aquarium in my absence during holiday and caused the peril of some fish.

The nearby pond is a well-maintained school pond populated with various types of fish and plants covering approx. 1,300 sqft. The pond is an eco-project run by a school. I found healthy molly population inside the pond and it is certainly a more stable and conducive habitat for the remaining fish.

Just want to clarify some facts. We all share the passion for appreciating the beauty and peace brought by aquarium. I certainly don't want my fish to perish.

[celticfish]

Please refrain from IM lingo while you are in AQ.

[shrimppaste]

I am sorry if you are at this point still trying to find means to save your initial comment. If you think you are not buying these fishes to sacrifice them, then why did you buy feeder fishes to put in? Why don;t you say buy fishes you like. Like Tetras, corydoras, or maybe you do really like Mollies? Then why not keep the mollies in your tank forever?

Well, your argument about them being used as water tester than being used as a feeder fish is more humane holds some water, but then you should have just said that straight up without giving the other reasonings upfront, and I guess you would have gotten less flak.

And like someone mentioned, if you read up now, it is very clear that it is no longer the case that fishes have to die in a new planted tank. I started a planted tank and started to put my adokettas in after 2 weeks, and if you know the price of these adokettas, then you know I made sure they can live before I place them in.

[collins]

What i m trying to say is that i find it inappropriate to impose subjective moral judgment upon others just because someone does things differently and somehow some of the fish died. please do not make the post a moral lecture. I m just here to share and learn, not to argue with anyone

[shrimppaste]

I think with any media that is accessible to anyone if you choose to post it online, then you should know that you are vulnerable to comments from other people. And really it is not trying to impose moral judgements but just that maybe we see something that we think should not be done in a certain manner and we just voice it out, which is why it is called a forum. And a lot of times, we tend to try to defense ourselves when we are pointed out or criticised, but should we not have the magnitude and self reflection to look at ourselves first. To look at why people, not just one person, are having negative opinions on the way we do things?

[Fuzzy]

What i m trying to say is that i find it inappropriate to impose subjective moral judgment upon others just because someone does things differently and somehow some of the fish died. please do not make the post a moral lecture. I m just here to share and learn, not to argue with anyone

I don't think any of us are being judgmental or trying to impose our morals on you. We are just suggesting that what you are practicing is not humane, and generally against best practices for cycling a tank these days.

Though many of us do have a serious issue with releasing livestock into wild ecosystems, you have clarified that the pond is already inhabited by this species and is not a natural water feature.

It's understandable that you took offense at some of the comments but please understand that the reason some of us made them was to improve the living conditions of livestock (feeders or not) and to further the humane treatment of livestock in the hobby, as well as the interest of preserving our native ecosystems.

The spirit in which the message was intended was not from a moral high ground or offensive stance, and I do apologize if it was taken this way.

[jwuog]

Just jumping in with my 2 cents worth – for comparison sake, what about those that buy glass shrimps, mollies, platies, guppies as live feed etc?

Aren't these fishkeepers 'morally more deplorable' for 'sentencing' the animals to their death? There's no chance of survival, but in a cycling process, there's still hope.

Releasing them into a huge contained environment, personally I see no wrong in that. Logically you would think a fish would prefer a 1300 sq ft space as compared to a puny 1ft, 2ft or 6ft tank? Unless a fish really have short-term memory and doesn't remember where it had been seconds ago. School pond ecosystem, because it's a pond, is created by the human hand, so it's balanced by whoever takes care of it.

Predation happens naturally in the real world. What about those who put fish into a tank of incompatible tankmates and gets fin-nipped and stressed to death like an apisto knowing full well that it may not be the fish's best interest as they are dither fish? Isn't that more unnatural?

I say the mollies had earned their stripes. Hope they live well and free.

[Fuzzy]

Just jumping in with my 2 cents worth – for comparison sake, what about those that buy glass shrimps, mollies, platies, guppies as live feed etc?

Aren't these fishkeepers 'morally more deplorable' for 'sentencing' the animals to their death? There's no chance of survival, but in a cycling process, there's still hope.

Releasing them into a huge contained environment, personally I see no wrong in that. Logically you would think a fish would prefer a 1300 sq ft space as compared to a puny 1ft, 2ft or 6ft tank? Unless a fish really have short-term memory and doesn't remember where it had been seconds ago. School pond ecosystem, because it's a pond, is created by the human hand, so it's balanced by whoever takes care of it.

Predation happens naturally in the real world. What about those who put fish into a tank of incompatible tankmates and gets fin-nipped and stressed to death like an apisto knowing full well that it may not be the fish's best interest as they are dither fish? Isn't that more unnatural?

I say the mollies had earned their stripes. Hope they live well and free.

I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make is. as it's not even necessary to use livestock to cycle a tank, plain and simple.

Releasing livestock into an artificial pond already populated with that species (after obtaining consent from the pond owner) is totally fine, I don't think anyone has a problem with that.

I'd say the mollies suffering and their deaths during the cycle were completely unnecessary and served no purpose whatsoever because they were not necessary in the first place, so we can agree to disagree on that point.

[naturalmystic]

This is my first time jumping in on a thread like this.
Sitting on the fence has been good for me, but one has to fall sometimes due to sore bums

As fish-lovers, one would not like to see any fish being treated like lab animals, i.e. being used to cycle the tank.
Though I'm not sure if the same group has any worries about the other lab animals (monkeys, rats and even dolphins!).
Some even bought dyed fish!

Maybe bro collins is not a fish-lover but plant- and snail-lover.
Imagine his horror reading up on posts of members killing all sorts of plants with their poor choice of substrate, no knowledge of lighting, etc.
Imagine also his horror reading up on all the various methods to kill snails!

What we can do is educate not enforce.
Bro collins may not be moved but others reading this thread may found a fishless way to cycle their tank.

[shrimppaste]

Just jumping in with my 2 cents worth – for comparison sake, what about those that buy glass shrimps, mollies, platies, guppies as live feed etc?

Aren't these fishkeepers 'morally more deplorable' for 'sentencing' the animals to their death? There's no chance of survival, but in a cycling process, there's still hope.

Releasing them into a huge contained environment, personally I see no wrong in that. Logically you would think a fish would prefer a 1300 sq ft space as compared to a puny 1ft, 2ft or 6ft tank? Unless a fish really have short-term memory and doesn't remember where it had been seconds ago. School pond ecosystem, because it's a pond, is created by the human hand, so it's balanced by whoever takes care of it.

Predation happens naturally in the real world. What about those who put fish into a tank of incompatible tankmates and gets fin-nipped and stressed to death like an apisto knowing full well that it may not be the fish's best interest as they are dither fish? Isn't that more unnatural?

I say the mollies had earned their stripes. Hope they live well and free.

Hey Jwuog, exactly what I said. You buy them as water tester to sacrifice, then say that up front and not use them as water tester and then try to justify that you are sacrificing in a more humane way. It is like in Rambo 3. You let the people go and then starting shooting them. If you run pas the padi field, then you are free to go.

[kenny]

It was not my intention to pass judgement on the person, it is unfortunate you took it that way and I feel sorry for it. I, and may I speak on the others' behalf as well,were critising the methods, not you. We were sharing our knowledge and opinions so that fellow Newbie forumers will know of other alternatives, which they can apply when they set up their first tanks. you may also consider that when you set up your next tank. If you only wanted praises and agreement, I'm afraid this is the wrong forum for you.

To the subject of ponds being the Eco-friendly place to release fish, there are cases which tells me that is not entirely so.

By the act of nature, floods would flush the fish out into the surrounding natural waterways. This has happened even in Singapore when freak heavy rains flooded some farms, where the fish reared in large ponds in the ground were simply washed away. Does that affect the local biotope?

Another incident I came across happened to a pond I see everyday on the way to work. The pond was drained and mauled to flat land. I saw a small tortoise on the road beside the now-gone pond. It was lucky to have escaped. So what is the fate of the fishes that were released into the pond?

We praise ourselves when releasing animals out to a habitat that seems like a heaven. But when events like mentioned above occurs, do we remember to blame ourselves for indirectly sending them to hell?

[felix_fx2]

Guys, please.

OFF WITH THE HEAT, I KNOW THE WEATHER IS HOT .
This is the Planted Tanks sections.

collins: Nice setup though, it would have been even more better if setup pictures were more.

kenny: i think collins released it to the school's pond.

shrimppaste & jwuog bro, my sentiments exactly. such a debatable topic

[cheetf]

Interesting chicken and egg thread.

[kenny]

School ponds do not have immunity against flooding and destruction haha....

Actually I was going say this tank is pretty nice until I was distracted by the.... You know...
I feel the left and right side is too similar, even the sequence of plant species from the front to the back is the same? And the sand path in the centre is erm... too centre.

Would it help if one side is expanded, by adding more dark substrate to it (like reclaiming land). Then reduce the number of plant species on the smaller island. This can create some disequilibrium on both sides which helps create some flow hopefully.

[collins]

thanks for all your comments and attention. I will certainly try to cycle a new tank without using test fish. Somehow i still find aquarium a cruel hobby for fish ... they eventually die due to various reasons at some point of time, be it disease, mental unhappiness, lack of care, fericous tankmate, technical error in water management, countless fishes are discarded for selective breeding, dozens die during transportation and fish shop ... all casualties created by the demand of hobbists who love fish... ironic isn't it? Nonetheless, at least we should endeavour to minimize the loss whenever possible.

Back to the topic of the planted tank.
To quidorz: shall i trim hairgrass right after i planted them or wait for it to stablize? now the hairgrass is extending runner at steady pace. Is trimming it to half length sufficient?

To Kenny: thanks for the comments. You are right. i find the setting too symmentrical as well. Especially the central patch should be paved with darker gravels and offset to one side. I plan to replace the red goldfish weed (sorry, don't know the scientific term) on the right with a big piece of Cryptocoryne and sprinkle some dark colour gravel to cover part of the white patch.

I will update the photos after i make the change.

Thanks all!