what are the common sources of nitrate and phosphate?

[cheeboonyong]

Hi,

I'm having a outbreak of bba, which I suspect is chiefly due to the high nitrate (>40mg/l) and phosphate (>2mg/l) levels that I have. The high levels are consistent, i.e., even after changing 50% of my water, it returns to its original high levels after 3-4 days.

I've tested my tap water and it shows negligible nitrate and phosphate. And therefore I believe my test kit is not defective.

I'm using TMG (free of nitrate and phosphate) and K2SO4 and Dr Mallick's trace elements.

What are the common sources of nitrate and phosphate? From fish food? From rotting plants? From rotting fish?

My problem is not that I'm unwilling to change water regularly but that the nitrate and phosphate returns to a very high level very fast. I need to identify the source of nitrate and phosphate and eliminate it.

[PeterGwee]

BBA generally points to poor CO2 level. What is your pH and KH values? Get the CO2 fixed first before attempting to correct your high nitrate and phosphate...(How did those get so high? Jobe sticks? Extreme bioload?)..I doubt your test kit..do a standard Nitrate solution and test it against the kit.

[cheeboonyong]

my Kh is 6. I've no idea about my pH. I've not gotten a test kit for that yet. Will post once I get it.

[kadios]

Try increasing your CO2 like what Peter said.

I think your tank condition is not stable, that's why BBA erupts. Btw, how's the growth of your plants? Fast for the fast growing type? How long has your tank been? Did any drastic changes lately? How's the lightings?

With these info, we may be able to provide some light to your problem.

Juz to share, my personal experience with BBA outbreak was due to instable conditions, coupled with low CO2 concentration level. Like you, I had to change water regularly every 2-3 days. I also did the drastic approach of removing most of my hairgrass that were badly hit by BBA. Then I picked out a few unaffected strands(and I mean it literally) and let it grow back. Nowadays, there's still some BBA around but it's a huge improvement compared to last time. That was how I controlled (but not elimated) BBA.
Hope it may be of use to you.

Cheers!

[David]

Hi CBY

Incidentially what is your current water temperature?.....do you happen to be having alot of decomposing material such as dying leafs and are you overfeeding your fishes?

ooohh just one more thing. How big is this tank and how many yamatoes do you have at the moment?.....Increasing yamatoes is one of the ways to remove uneaten food as well as death leaf material.

[naturetan]

You're facing the same problem as my tank. Though PO4/NO3 could come from different sources as mentioned by David, my tank sources come from the overused of substrate fertilizer. Before you decide that's a factor, ensure your tank bioload is not too high, and no rotting materials/fishes could be found.

[David]

Hi Naturetan

How do you mean by over using Base fert?.....Are you referring to using too little gravel and the base fert is leeching into the water column?

[PeterGwee]

The reliability of the test kit is the thing you should look at seriously. With large 50% water changes, the most our tap water could add to your tank is just roughly 7.5ppm of NO3. As long as the CO2, PO4, traces and GH are good, there is no way the nitrate would build up that fast...Imagine I did a very large water change and the nitrate measured after the change was 5ppm of NO3. A day after the water change...NO3 shoot up to 20-30ppm....not possible I think...

[limsteel]

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no rotting materials/fishes could be found.
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This one very difficult to adhere to... Initially I got 11 Rummy nose, 8 Oto, and many other fishes ... Now 5 Rummy,2 oto and NO DEAD BODIES (carcasses) I tried very hard to find but effort are futile... Cardinal is the most common death bodies found... the rest, Alien from another planet took them?

Anyway, jack up the CO2, UP CO2 every other fert elements will go down Also Algae too! Must Thanks Mr. PETER for the advice! Also Green Spot algae also will reduce!

Mr Peter's 1st Law: For every algae and plant problem, UP CO2!

[naturetan]

David,

Not really. Instead of stuffing in just 1 bag of base fertiliser, I'm sort of greedy for better plant growth as newbie, so I used 2 bags of intensive Taiwan brand fertilizers instead. This lead to a constant high NO3 level that BBA invaded my tank for more than 3 months! Despite covering a thick layer of sand( about 10cm for 2ft tank), it doesn't help, even with 50% water change and getting another set of NO3 test kit, it still shows the same result, with substrate fertilizer leeching into the water column.

[bclee]

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On 6/25/2003 12:43:06 AM

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no rotting materials/fishes could be found.
----------------

This one very difficult to adhere to... Initially I got 11 Rummy nose, 8 Oto, and many other fishes ... Now 5 Rummy,2 oto and NO DEAD BODIES (carcasses) I tried very hard to find but effort are futile... Cardinal is the most common death bodies found... the rest, Alien from another planet took them?

Anyway, jack up the CO2, UP CO2 every other fert elements will go down Also Algae too! Must Thanks Mr. PETER for the advice! Also Green Spot algae also will reduce!

Mr Peter's 1st Law: For every algae and plant problem, UP CO2!
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Hey guys, I hope you do not get the idea wrong. Up CO2 isn't the cure-all.

Light, CO2, nutrients (including NO3 and PO4) are all necessary for good healthy, algae-free tank. It is not excess of nutrients resulting in algae growth. I have had 30ppm PO4 and 20ppm NO3 with NO algae problem. Healthy plants is the key. Provide good lighting, CO2 and nutrients for good plant growth. They will take care of the algae for you. Any of the components short, you will have problem.

Maintain a crew of algae eaters. They will help.

BC

[naturetan]

Hi BC,

I think likewise and agree with you completely that supplying all nutrients for healthy plants growth will maintain an algae-free tank.

However, my experience tell me that NO3 too much in excess(>40ppm), or too little(<5ppm), will be problematic for a tank. But I don't think that apply to PO4 if in excess. This also apply when all nutrients have been supplied within good range. From my observation, my tank bba has significantly reduced in spreading when NO3 drops <40ppm, from the high of 80ppm!

You can try it for yourself, increase NO3 dose to 80ppm and see what happen. Or stop changing water to increase NO3 till unacceptably high level, and we'll see the difference. I'll post my findings for discussion when things get more conclusive.

[limsteel]

Bclee: Hey guys, I hope you do not get the idea wrong. Up CO2 isn't the cure-all.

Oh yah before that must make sure that lighting and neutrient are sufficient...

[vinz]

The first advice is to fix CO2, because it's the easiest to fix. No need to guess ppm, no vague targets and adjustment is with the turn of a knob or adding/removing a bottle of DIY CO2.

Measure KH, pH, look up the chart and you know how much CO2 you have and need to raise/lower.

Target: 20 to 30 ppm.