Mixing frog spp.

[dkk08]

hi i totally agree with u guys.....but mixing different species is individual preferences buy highly risky affair.its can be done depending of the species, size and set up of the vivariuam.

My feeder frogs and albino lived quite peacefully for 3 weeks till the feeder frogs grew bigger........eventually attacked it till death....it thought it was food....this frogs kind of attack anything that moves..thinking it to be prey.

From my so called experiment:
1) feeder frog(guess its bullfrog) out grows the albino very fast, difficult to make sure both grows at the same rate.

exactly for 3 weeks, I'm trying my best not to condemn your actions (and I'm being kind already, you'll get it far worst from the American and European forums) we did (if I remember correctly) advise you that it's best not to do so but you still went ahead and did so (your choice really...)

and from your so called experiment you actually sacrifice a already "rare" frog (cause its not easily available here in Singapore) and it's really sad to hear that you want to continue with another experiment... like I said I'm really trying my best to stay open minded here...

2) Major factor- my viva is too small, no proper segregation of land and water area with very swallow water depth.thus there was constant face to face meet up of the 2 species.which triggered the attacking nature in the feeder fish especially during feeding time.
SO i believe with a proper segregation of land and water with depth, feeder frog(i believe do not like to in deep water) will not have the chance to attack the albino. Albino can swim to water bed if they feel threaten....

i might be wrong, but worth trying this out......your views guys

But i believe greenback frog or 4 line tree frog might be better alternative for bullfrog..
suprisingy the feeder frog does not attack the caecilian...it moves away from it.

what do you mean "to have a proper segregation of land and water" ? If you want a proper segregation of land and water perhaps you should check out Stan's(aka Energy) thread in Dendroboard forum here... of cause it'll do you alot of good to read through the whole 93 pages and for your information he has a 15ft tank...

[vivaboy76]

well your views are always welcome friend..........sorry that i did scarifice 2 albinos......in future i will make sure no such re occurrence...thats why i doing thorough research on this topic....before going any further.

i will read up the article u recommend. thanks alot.
then again i dont think albino clawed frog is that rare locally. I believe the most rare is the dwarf clawed frog sold locally. cos i only came across this guys once in my life at Qian hu last month. purchased a pair - not for experiments but its safely in a community tank of neon tetra , danios and pair of juvenile discus with lots of hiding and vegatation areas.not going to take any chances on this guys....dont know when it will be sold here again.

[dkk08]

oh yes, check out more information on african clawed frogs here in case yours is really a mating pair...

http://clawedfrogs.tripod.com/
http://www.pipidae.net/adcf.php

[FuEl]

There are many habitats in Southeast Asia. Different habitats have different ecological niches and different animals will carry their own host of pathogens. Especially animals from different genus. Each genus is different, with each having their own particular immune response. Even if both species originate from the same place in Indonesia, I would not mix them. I would only do if the animals have undergone the full quarantine period and have had faecal samples done to clear them of any internal parasites. This would then eliminate the possibility of both species cross contaminating each other in the stressful limited confines of captivity.

Then again, it's common for these animals to be viewed with such insignificance that most people won't do that anyway.

You have asked for an opinion and I have given you mine, in scientific reality. Mixing species that have not been quarantined is never a good practice. If you have the patience to quarantine, you have my respect.

[eddy planer]

Hi Fuel

I must admit and agreed with you are right this time. The problem is. Where can we obtain those exotic animals in this strict AVA controlled Singapore?! LOL!

You see all those White Tree Frogs had already been quarantine before they can release them to market.

If we are staying in Indonesia, Thailand or Malaysia, we'll follow what you mentioned earlier but alas this is Singapore.

Good try, brother

[FuEl]

White's are quarantined? Put their poop under a microscope. You'll see how this is not so.

[eddy planer]

According to Qian Hui, all white must quarantine at least 1-2 weeks before they can release them in the market. Their poo under AVA's microscope that one I'm not too sure. Nevertheless, this is common sense, all faunas and flora must quarantine under AVA before release. Even fauna like brom which i ordered from USA still have to quarantine for two weeks, and I have to pay for their service too.

[69efan69]

I think most , if not all the whites tree frogs that we bought from qianhu are wild caught. And chances of parasites in them are very high unfortunately. :[

[eddy planer]

For what I know Qian Hui purchase the Whites are actually cultivating the farm breed not wildly caught. They brought in are 100 Whites were less than six months old.

[69efan69]

For what I know Qian Hui purchase the Whites are actually cultivating the farm breed not wildly caught. They brought in are 100 Whites were less than six months old.

ahh thats great news!

Thanks for the info didnt know this =]

[eddy planer]

Sorry mate,

The White juveniles already sold out since two months ago!

[Shaihulud]

Caecilians can exude a form of poison from their skin, as a deterence, maybe that is why the bullfrogs are not so adventurous towards it. There are smaller feeder frogs (not bullfrogs) those grow up to be a smaller size (field frogscrab/eating frogs?), they would be the same size as clawed frogs when grown, bad things is that they are smaller than the clawed frogs when sold!

[Gecko]

There are many habitats in Southeast Asia. Different habitats have different ecological niches and different animals will carry their own host of pathogens. Especially animals from different genus. Each genus is different, with each having their own particular immune response. Even if both species originate from the same place in Indonesia, I would not mix them. I would only do if the animals have undergone the full quarantine period and have had faecal samples done to clear them of any internal parasites. This would then eliminate the possibility of both species cross contaminating each other in the stressful limited confines of captivity.

Then again, it's common for these animals to be viewed with such insignificance that most people won't do that anyway.

You have asked for an opinion and I have given you mine, in scientific reality. Mixing species that have not been quarantined is never a good practice. If you have the patience to quarantine, you have my respect.

Thanks for the opinion. Perhaps I should have been more specific.

My experience with herps dates back a couple of decades, many of which were outside of Singapore, predates AVA's "positive list" and perhaps beyond the scope of this forum. For the record, I currently only have White's tree frogs and a single greenback frog which was found in my garden. I kept her to save her from my neighbour's cat.

Was not looking for the run of the mill discussion about mixing of species or from different regions in general, which are well debated everywhere for a long time. But specifically for two relatively common species available to us locally....and for a reason....

I quarantined new addition for 2 months (beat the incubation period) before adding to the current colony. For prophylactic reasons, de-worming is sometimes done. So quarantine was not my concern here as it is routinely carried out.

The reason or opinion or experience I was trying to find out when I started this thread was if anyone might have kept the 2 species together (unknowing)successfully. The scientific reality is that from various sources, it has been documented that the skin secretion from the White's Tree Frog contains caerins, a group of peptides with antibacterial and antiviral properties. It also contains caerulins. Several peptides in the secretion have also been found to destroy HIV without harming healthy T-cells.

All the above may or may not be toxic to a greenback and I was not prepared to experiment. I can't comment on what people do or won't do for their pet, but my greenback which cost nothing to me, has a nice tank all to herself and is very well-fed, grew from a 3incher to 5 in a few months...if it was safe for her to live with the white's, she would get company and a much bigger space.

Anyways I think this thread has run its course, and no, I will not be risking my greenback.