Red plant and lighting

[robin]

Thanks a lot will try what you suggested but my guess work quite bad so may need to see the plants as a gauge.

Robin

[PeterGwee]

Robin, you using pressurised or DIY CO2? Keeping close tab on CO2 during the initial stages is critical. Letting it loose and it falls below optimal level and you slow plants down. Using plants to judge for level of NO3? Well, just don't overdo it...let it become too red and you risk stunting the plants.

[robin]

okay understood, i using presurre co2. All my other plants super green and also got many BBA and green hair * sigh*. My red plants are turning green but will try to do what was suggested.

Robin

[naturetan]

I suggest you solve your algae issue first, before thinking about getting redder plants. Usually, plants turn red naturally when it grow healthier. It might not work if your nutrients are not in good shape.

[robin]

I have been trying hard to solve my algae problem but to no avail, maybe some kind soul wanna come my place and assist.


Tank Dimensions (LxWxH): 120 x 46 x 31
Tank Volume (litres or gallons): 120 litres
Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) : 2 x 30W
Type of Lighting (FL/PL/MH) : FL
No. of Hours your light is on : 10
CO2 Injection Rate (bps) : 3
Type of CO2 (DIY/Liquid/Tank) : tank
Method of Injection (e.g. Diffusor/Reactor): Reactor ( 3 ball)
Substrate Used : Dennerle Deponit 120 1 tub
How Thick is your base fert : 2-3cm
How thick is your gravel : 5 - 6 cm
Liquid Fertilizers Used : K2so4, Sera Florena, Seachem Phorporus, Seachem Nitrogen
Frequency of fertilization : weekly
Tank Temperature : 27 celcius
Type of Filter (overhead/internal/canister) : internal (default)
Filter media used : Blue sponges, black sponges, cotton
How long has your tank been set up : 8 mths
Other equipment : cooling Fan

Chemical Properties (Fill what you can)
---------------------------------------
Carbonate Hardness (KH): 5
Total Hardness (gH): 5
pH : 6.8
NH4 (ppm):
NO2 (ppm):
NO3 (ppm): 5
PO4 (ppm): 0.2
Fe (ppm):

Bioload (Your Fish and Plants)
------------------------------

24 cardinal tetra
20 Harlequin
2 clown loach
2 big SAE
9 oto
1 golden algae eater
10 Yamato shrimp
17 Malayan Shrimp

My plants see pic
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/258459/tank.jpg

Regards
Robin

[geoffrey]

Your NO3 and PO4 are low. Work on a dosing regime that will maintain your NO3 above 10ppm and PO4 above 0.5ppm. And give your tank about 20ppm of K weekly.

[robin]

now i am even MORE confuse, people telling my to lower no3 and raise no3.

Argh!!

Robin

[bclee]

Lower NO3 you get redness. NO3 too low you get algae.

BC

[kadios]

Hi Robin!

I suggest you try out a different fertilization regime. Split it! Instead of weekly, do it daily, or twice a week. This way, you have better control.

IMO, your water conditions is not optimize, so whilst trying to find out the best course of dosage, the more frequent but lesser dosage regime works to slow down your algae growth by reducing the amount of fertilizers available in the water. But that means your plants will grow slower as well. This is when you start to play around with the dosage regime like the frequency, amount of dosage or the type of fertilizers etc. Monitor the plant and algae growth and adjust accordingly. Best that you keep a record.

Do it slowly but systematically. Easy and fast growing plants may be the best indicator for your little experiment.

Cheers!

[PeterGwee]

PO4 is the one that drives high NO3 uptake when all the other nutrients especially CO2 are met. Keep your pH with 6.7-6.8 during the entire light cycle and not parts of it and monitor for a period of time to make sure it stays there.

For now, it seems your light is too low! LOL [] ..1.3W/G? Try to get it up to 2W/G minimum if you want redness.

Quit focusing on the algae and more on plant growth. Algae don't need much nutrients to grow..plants need them..just prune and trim the algae during weekly maintenance and grow plants well.

[sherchoo]

IMO,
Please please increase your lighting. Insufficient lighting will slow your plant uptake and from the rate you're dosing the ferterlizers you'll definately have algae. The key is to have a balance.

[vinz]

Ok Robin, here's some sanity.

First thing is fix your algae problem before worrying about getting the plants red.

Reset you tank... change 50% water per week. Physically remove as much algae as possible.

Get your lights up to at least 2WPG. Raise your NO3 to 10ppm and keep it above 5ppm. PO4 raise to 1ppm and maintain it above 0.5ppm. Meaning: Dose your NO3 to 10ppm, it will get consumed. Dose again before it drops below 5ppm. Dose K to 20ppm once per week after water change. Bring your CO2 up to 20 to 30ppm. For trace fertilisers, split the dose to thrice or twice a week. Reduce your trace ferts as your lights are quite low.

[naturetan]

Robin,

For your tank size, I'm wondering why you're using an internal filter? Are you using the right filtration with the correct flowrate?

[bclee]

I believe Robin is using a Juwel tank that comes with its own internal filter... a pretty powerful one.

BC

[robin]

peter, i am pretty sure i am running 2 wpg.

Anyway, will try to put another 30w fl so that I have 90W fl for my 120 litres (30gallons).

Will see what happens.

Robin

[vinz]

Robin, depends whether you're calculating with tank capacity or actual water volume. 120x46x31cm = 45 gallons tank capacity.

[geoffrey]

----------------
On 7/23/2003 1:04:42 PM

peter, i am pretty sure i am running 2 wpg.

Anyway, will try to put another 30w fl so that I have 90W fl for my 120 litres (30gallons).

Will see what happens.

Robin
----------------

If you are only going to increase light and wait for your algae to go away and get redder plants, it won't happen. You have to work on your fertilising regime (C included) together with the lights. Get you plants to grow and flourish first.

[robin]

Sorry, i got my tank perimters wrong

should be 90 x 45 x 35

anyway, something seems to be restricting the no3 uptake. every end of the week after water change when i test is still 5.
i think i better test the tap water and see if my kit is faulty.

Anyway, what are the common problem which restricts the uptake of no3?
And is excess no3 the culprit that cause green hair like algae and BBA?

Robin

[geoffrey]

anyway, something seems to be restricting the no3 uptake. every end of the week after water change when i test is still 5.
5ppm before and after water change? NO3 test kits are not very good at lower end of the range. Poor resolution. Having 5ppm can sometime be as good as having zero.

Anyway, what are the common problem which restricts the uptake of no3?
I personally feel equilibrating at 5ppm is not a good idea. When NO3 appears to stay at one number doesn't necessarily means uptake is restricted. It means your NO3 input balances your plant's uptake but more than often you should see some movement of ups and downs depending on when you measured. Downs resulting from uptake of your plants and ups from your dosing, leaching and nitro-cycled wastes. A lack of a single nutrient will restrict the uptake of the others. In the case of NO3, a lack of macro is likely, particularly PO4 or CO2.

And is excess no3 the culprit that cause green hair like algae and BBA?
Some have really high measured NO3 yet without algae while others have low measured NO3 yet no algae too. What is measured is not important. If you can dose enough for your plant's uptake and still equilibrate at low, fine and good but risky. Similiarly if you dose enough for your plant's uptake but equilibrate at high, fine and good too. Problem occurs only when you don't dose enough and at a low nutrients equilibrium point, that small buffer can be depleted quickly.

[PeterGwee]

Mmmmmmm..what is your pH just before lights on and lights off for a KH of 5(is your KH stable?). BBA is almost always a CO2 problem..a lack of it or inconsistent. Don't worry about your NO3 (cheapo test kits are junk mostly) for now and get your CO2 proper. Move to the NO3 only if your CO2 is fixed..assuming your kit is correct and you have 5ppm of NO3. Are you dosing K (20-30ppm)? Traces (What type and the amount?)..phosphate (Measured with test kit? or estimated dosing?)

The key is to do the elimination process...Do in the order of Light, CO2, NO3, K, PO4. Dose enough and things should go well. Your NO3 should drop unless you are overfeeding or overstocking. []