Electrical Requirements

[samhon]

Another technical aspect of a marine setup

Hi guys, as I would be embarking on a new journey towards marine setup, I would like to seek some clarifications on the electrical aspect of this project.


Assuming that my tank is around 7feet x 2.5 feet x 26 inch in dimension, roughly how much electrical consumption would that be?

I would be engaging an electrician to pull new wires and sockets to this project that is solely dedicated for the tank, and he asked my what is the AMP or electrical requirement I would need for this tank. I have absoutely no idea.

Perhaps a list of equipment might be useful

LED lighting
Compressor (Aircon) /Chiller

Wavemaker X 2
Return pump
skimmer
CR
Fluidised bed
Denitration
Plankton breeder

These are just some reactors/equipment that I would like to add over time, so I just throw them in

Any seasoned reefers can advise me on this?

[Goondoo]

Another technical aspect of a marine setup

Hi guys, as I would be embarking on a new journey towards marine setup, I would like to seek some clarifications on the electrical aspect of this project.


Assuming that my tank is around 7feet x 2.5 feet x 26 inch in dimension, roughly how much electrical consumption would that be?

I would be engaging an electrician to pull new wires and sockets to this project that is solely dedicated for the tank, and he asked my what is the AMP or electrical requirement I would need for this tank. I have absoutely no idea.

Perhaps a list of equipment might be useful

LED lighting
Compressor (Aircon) /Chiller

Wavemaker X 2
Return pump
skimmer
CR
Fluidised bed
Denitration
Plankton breeder

These are just some reactors/equipment that I would like to add over time, so I just throw them in

Any seasoned reefers can advise me on this?

I guess you will need two separate breaker. One 16A for the air-con compressor, one 20A for everything else but you may want to have one spare (I didn't).

[BFG]

My 4ft tank is placed between 2 electrical outlet ( power point ). 1 is solely for my compressor chiller and 2 Tunze 6100 wave maker while the other is used for the rest of my equipment such as lighting, skimmer and return pump, Tunze osmolator, kalkwasser stirrer, calcium reactor ( soon to be taken off line ) and cabinet interior lighting.

My Mitsubishi compressor is 2kw. My lighting WAS 8x54w previously but currently only using 4x54w, will be upgrading to 2x 160w Maxspect led, which have been bought but not yet installed. I think you will need 4 wave maker for your tank length Samhon. Due to your lighting need, your tank electrical consumption might add around the region of $300 to your monthly electrical bill.

What type of coral you want to keep Samhon? It will influence the type of lighting, skimmer and pump. Fluidised bed and denitrator can be replaced with the use of N/P biopellet. You are not staying in a HDB flat I gather from the tank size?

[samhon]

Hi billy,

thanks for your inputs, will speak to the electricians in regards to that

Interesting that you mention them in terms of AMP but BFG mentioned them in terms of walts, which one would be electrician be more familar with?



Hi BFG,

thanks for taking time to help me in this again.

Might be a bit off track, but I believe it makes sense to talk about what I want in the tank in order to match the equipment and thus match the power consumption.


For the first 6 months, I would just be having LR and the usual cleaner crew, I think LR are absoutely fanatastic and many have shared the surprise they get every morning when they wake up to see new things. Also, giving myself 6 months to "keep" LR would be a good period to familarise myself with a marine setup. I have spent the last 2 years plus reading about marine setup, ordering books from amazon etc, but i think all these head knowledge will not prepare me for the task ahead, thus i thought 6 months with an actual marine setup with only LR would really give me time to stablise the tank and do some on job traning.

After the 6 months, it will be on to the easier softies and the easier LPS, I would be picking up some of the easier ones, again this is to minimise any loss of life under my care. This would take another 6months to a year?

Finally when the time is right, I would be looking at some SPS. But that is a big "if" actually, and will only probably come after 18 months or much more into the hobby. There is much for me to learn, like husbandry, requirements etc

Just a side track, I have read about hobbyist running into problems when their softies and SPS start killing each other, so i might just keep to softies/ LPS




Yeah with that, I guess what I am looking for eventually would be a mixed reef.


I tend to agree with you BFG, that i might need 4 wavemakers, my marine setup guy was giving me a quotation with 2 X hydro koralia 8, I might wanna change to 4 X, anyway I will start a thread on that later, on to my power requirement


For lighting, since i might be venturing into SPS eventually, I was toying with the idea of the following LED light

ECO LAMP KR92
KR92-76B(220V)
Size: L1930 x W205 x H35mm
Power: 300W
Voltage: 220V AC(110V available for preorder)
˙3 Light modes: Day light > Blue light > Moon light
˙Adjustable width tank mounts or Pendant mounts
˙Energy saving & environmental protection
˙Fixture is cooled by blowing air across heat sinks
˙Heat is radiated away from the tank expelling the need for chillers
˙Long life time up to 50,000 hours eliminating bulb replacement
˙No UV or IR damage light sensitive items
˙PC / VHO / T5 / MH replacement
˙Producing as more powerful than a 250W MH
˙Programmable timer to control light modes

This would generally mean lower power consumption due to LED lighting and also lesser heat thus lesser kicking in for my compressor right?


Assuming this, do you reckon that my monthly bills to be 300 SGD still?



Lastly, yeah I don't stay in HDB, have checked with my MA, that the floor loading is roughly working out to be 5KN/m2 to be on the very safe side, also will be frabricating a larger cabinet to increase the footprint on which the weight of the tank would be resting upon, somewhere in the region of 9ft X 3ft, still working out the details with the carpenters and PE.

[BFG]

ECO Lamp KR92 is nice. Let me poison you with this light set.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1873481

Samhon, I only assume your monthly bill cost but I always assume on the high side. So if after you've set up your tank and it was below $300, that is a bonus to you right? Looking at how you're going to begin, I believe what you'll need are as follow.

1) An auto top up equipment. I would highly recommend Tunze Osmolator. This piece of equipment control the water level in your sump. Attached to a timer, you could programmed it to top up evaporated water up to the level you've set it at the time you've set the timer for it to be operate.. You'll need to have a container to house ro/di water for it to draw water from and .....

2) A Kalkwasser reactor. This is connected to the Tunze Osmolator. The Tunze Osmolator will control the water level of your tank by adding ro/di water mixed with kalkwasser, a calcium type additive which raise the ph. This set up is preferably used at night, after your lights off period. It is used to replace evaporated water. The ph will drop during night time and the kalkwasser mixed water will help to boost the ph to acceptable level.

3) A RO/DI water filter. A very necessary piece of equipment. You cannot use direct tap water due to the impurities contained which would throw your salt mix water parameter into haywire. A pure water source should be used with a good salt mix.

4) Wave maker. I would recommend getting either Tunze or Vortech, or a mixture of both. These wave maker can be programmed to give customable flow in your tank.

This is about all I can think of right now. I am off to watch Jay Leno. Will continue to discuss more tomorrow.

[Goondoo]

Hi billy,

thanks for your inputs, will speak to the electricians in regards to that

Interesting that you mention them in terms of AMP but BFG mentioned them in terms of walts, which one would be electrician be more familar with?

Current is measured in Amperes(A) while Power is measured in Wattage or Watts (W). Power = Voltage (usually 230 range in SG) x Current. Breakers (such as ELCB, MCB etc) are usually in categorized in A since they are usually associated with current. Power is work done, something like how much voltage and current a device used to perform a required task. So it usually associated machines and equipments. Your LEW should understand either of them. They will be able to advise you if you can tell them the exact power your devices will consume.

Example: Voltage is 230v and you are using a dedicated 20A MCB. The maximum power it can support is 230x20= 4600w before the breaker trip. Even if you throw in a factor of 50%, it can still support up to 2300W or 2.3kW which should be pretty much on the safe side.

To measure how much all these will add up to your month bills, you need to know how much power each device consume per hour, (kWh). Multiply it with the cost from Singapore Power and you may be able to estimate how much they cost per hour of operation. Either that or get a kWh meter to gauge, some can provide how much kWh you used in a day, week or month.

Just all I can remember....

[samhon]

ECO Lamp KR92 is nice. Let me poison you with this light set.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1873481

Samhon, I only assume your monthly bill cost but I always assume on the high side. So if after you've set up your tank and it was below $300, that is a bonus to you right? Looking at how you're going to begin, I believe what you'll need are as follow.

1) An auto top up equipment. I would highly recommend Tunze Osmolator. This piece of equipment control the water level in your sump. Attached to a timer, you could programmed it to top up evaporated water up to the level you've set it at the time you've set the timer for it to be operate.. You'll need to have a container to house ro/di water for it to draw water from and .....

2) A Kalkwasser reactor. This is connected to the Tunze Osmolator. The Tunze Osmolator will control the water level of your tank by adding ro/di water mixed with kalkwasser, a calcium type additive which raise the ph. This set up is preferably used at night, after your lights off period. It is used to replace evaporated water. The ph will drop during night time and the kalkwasser mixed water will help to boost the ph to acceptable level.

3) A RO/DI water filter. A very necessary piece of equipment. You cannot use direct tap water due to the impurities contained which would throw your salt mix water parameter into haywire. A pure water source should be used with a good salt mix.

4) Wave maker. I would recommend getting either Tunze or Vortech, or a mixture of both. These wave maker can be programmed to give customable flow in your tank.

This is about all I can think of right now. I am off to watch Jay Leno. Will continue to discuss more tomorrow.

That light looks sweet, but lighting in itself is another big department, thanks for the poison

1) The vendor I was working with, assuming they are still keen to work with me after my delays and constant changing of quotations, suggested for me to get the aquatronic system which comes with auto topup system

personally, i prefer to go with profilux, but the vendor i am working with only has aquatronic

2) Kalkwasser - ok will add that in, thanks for pointing out on this, I might need more advice from you and billy on this

3) RO/DI - checked

4) wavemaker - ok this one is gonna be a problem, imo, water circulation is one of the big 4 in a marine setup, but water circulation requirement depends on the type of reef i am keeping.

I am currently being offered 2 X hydor krolia 8 wavemaker pump, my question is, should i get 4 smaller pumps or 2 larger pumps. Is 2 large wave maker sufficient?

the flowrate of hydor koralia 8 is 12500lt/hr

the flowrate of a smaller hydor koralia 5 is 6500lt/hr

so 4 small ones or 2 big ones? or 4 big ones? I don't really want an overkill, mini tsunami in my house




I think we are really going off topic here, moderators please feel free to let me know if I could continue discussing this here or start a new thread

[samhon]

Current is measured in Amperes(A) while Power is measured in Wattage or Watts (W). Power = Voltage (usually 230 range in SG) x Current. Breakers (such as ELCB, MCB etc) are usually in categorized in A since they are usually associated with current. Power is work done, something like how much voltage and current a device used to perform a required task. So it usually associated machines and equipments. Your LEW should understand either of them. They will be able to advise you if you can tell them the exact power your devices will consume.

Example: Voltage is 230v and you are using a dedicated 20A MCB. The maximum power it can support is 230x20= 4600w before the breaker trip. Even if you throw in a factor of 50%, it can still support up to 2300W or 2.3kW which should be pretty much on the safe side.

To measure how much all these will add up to your month bills, you need to know how much power each device consume per hour, (kWh). Multiply it with the cost from Singapore Power and you may be able to estimate how much they cost per hour of operation. Either that or get a kWh meter to gauge, some can provide how much kWh you used in a day, week or month.

Just all I can remember....

wow billy,

thanks for the really great explanation, I have never taken physics in my whole life so all this sound very foreign to me, but now i am more informed to make a decision.

I would most likely follow your advice on this, 3 breakers

breaker 1 = 16 A for compressor chiller

breaker 2 = 20 A for everything else

breaker 3 = spare

billy for the spare, do you think i should go for 16 or 20 A?


thanks a million to u guys!

[BFG]

That light looks sweet, but lighting in itself is another big department, thanks for the poison

1) The vendor I was working with, assuming they are still keen to work with me after my delays and constant changing of quotations, suggested for me to get the aquatronic system which comes with auto topup system

personally, i prefer to go with profilux, but the vendor i am working with only has aquatronic

2) Kalkwasser - ok will add that in, thanks for pointing out on this, I might need more advice from you and billy on this

3) RO/DI - checked

4) wavemaker - ok this one is gonna be a problem, imo, water circulation is one of the big 4 in a marine setup, but water circulation requirement depends on the type of reef i am keeping.

I am currently being offered 2 X hydor krolia 8 wavemaker pump, my question is, should i get 4 smaller pumps or 2 larger pumps. Is 2 large wave maker sufficient?

the flowrate of hydor koralia 8 is 12500lt/hr

the flowrate of a smaller hydor koralia 5 is 6500lt/hr

so 4 small ones or 2 big ones? or 4 big ones? I don't really want an overkill, mini tsunami in my house




I think we are really going off topic here, moderators please feel free to let me know if I could continue discussing this here or start a new thread

I think I might know who your vendor are. As long as the topic are still about your tank setup, we should keep it in the thread. For the wave maker, your problem is unique because of the length of the tank. At 7ft, I do not know how strong the water flow need to be to reach the other end of the tank. I was afraid that purchasing a single flow rate wave maker might create 2 problems, either the flow is too strong or not enough. Speak to your vendor whether a controllable wave maker could fit into your set up. I believe it could, just need to have an adjustment to the total budget, which would go north. You'll need a powerful wave maker at each end of the tank and a few more around the rear wall of the glass to create random flow to prevent detritus from settling on the sandbed. But the placement of wave maker will depend on how the display tank is created.

On the topic of controller, how well do you understand the operational part of the system? I hope that you should be very familiar with changing the control parameter of such controller. You do know that the probes on every system on every brand of monitor and controller need to be calibrated annually and need to be changed when these probes can't maintain a certain reading after being calibrated? You must be familiarized with all the control function and what not with your controller. My fear is that you have a sophisticated set up but you might not be able to use it due to your failure to operate it. Not to put you down or anything, I thought that to myself too that's why I do not have such controller. I might forget how to use them after a while of things running smoothly. These controller have updates, downloadable from the net, you might need a dedicated pc or a laptop for them.

[Goondoo]

wow billy,

thanks for the really great explanation, I have never taken physics in my whole life so all this sound very foreign to me, but now i am more informed to make a decision.

I would most likely follow your advice on this, 3 breakers

breaker 1 = 16 A for compressor chiller

breaker 2 = 20 A for everything else

breaker 3 = spare

billy for the spare, do you think i should go for 16 or 20 A?


thanks a million to u guys!

Hi Samhon,
Spare is not really compulsory although it may come in handy. However, if you really want a spare, I would suggest 20A. It should have its own socket outlet near the other so you can easily swing them over when required. You may want to run few of your pumps and wave makers under the spare, so in the case the main trips, the spare can at least get the tank's flow and circulation going especially when there is nobody home.

FYI, Common practice in household of Singapore,
1) 6A for lighting and ceiling fan,
2) 16A for single phase air con compressor
3) 20A for power socket outlets

[samhon]

Hi Samhon,
Spare is not really compulsory although it may come in handy. However, if you really want a spare, I would suggest 20A. It should have its own socket outlet near the other so you can easily swing them over when required. You may want to run few of your pumps and wave makers under the spare, so in the case the main trips, the spare can at least get the tank's flow and circulation going especially when there is nobody home.

FYI, Common practice in household of Singapore,
1) 6A for lighting and ceiling fan,
2) 16A for single phase air con compressor
3) 20A for power socket outlets

ok 20 A for the spare one then

thanks for your time billy

[samhon]

I think I might know who your vendor are. As long as the topic are still about your tank setup, we should keep it in the thread. For the wave maker, your problem is unique because of the length of the tank. At 7ft, I do not know how strong the water flow need to be to reach the other end of the tank. I was afraid that purchasing a single flow rate wave maker might create 2 problems, either the flow is too strong or not enough. Speak to your vendor whether a controllable wave maker could fit into your set up. I believe it could, just need to have an adjustment to the total budget, which would go north. You'll need a powerful wave maker at each end of the tank and a few more around the rear wall of the glass to create random flow to prevent detritus from settling on the sandbed. But the placement of wave maker will depend on how the display tank is created.

On the topic of controller, how well do you understand the operational part of the system? I hope that you should be very familiar with changing the control parameter of such controller. You do know that the probes on every system on every brand of monitor and controller need to be calibrated annually and need to be changed when these probes can't maintain a certain reading after being calibrated? You must be familiarized with all the control function and what not with your controller. My fear is that you have a sophisticated set up but you might not be able to use it due to your failure to operate it. Not to put you down or anything, I thought that to myself too that's why I do not have such controller. I might forget how to use them after a while of things running smoothly. These controller have updates, downloadable from the net, you might need a dedicated pc or a laptop for them.

Yeah I think I should go for the wave controller, as for placing of the wavemakers, it's gonna be a bit tricky as this tank would be a divider between my living room and dinning room, so there won't really be a rear end to say.

Too many things to consolidate, i shall keep the circulation problem to another time.

As for aquatronic or profilux, yeah I tend to agree with you, but I also believe that "if" i spend time getting to know the system and how it works, it would greatly aid me in understanding the system better, provide more control to the system and record down various reading and see how things respond to various changes to temp/pH/redox/nitrate levels/other trace elements etc (though I know aquatronic don't really provide me with all these data)

And the keyword here is "if"


Now that I am set with the numbers of breakers and each AMP, i guess it's time to move on to the big 4 (temp/light/circulation/filtration), but that is for another day


BFG and Billy, seems like you guys know my vendor, especially BFG could you share with me your feedback on them via PM or do you have others that you could recommend? Really appreciate it, my current vendor seem a bit tied up or maybe cause I am a undecisive customer, the correspondance to them via email has been slowing down. But they have been really responsive previously and have many good feedback