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Thread: If coral chips are left alone ....

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    If coral chips are left alone ....

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    If coral chips are left in the water , but there is no Co2 injection , the water would turn Alkaline right ?

    but at the level of alkalinity the coral chips induce , would it kill off the plants ?

    On ocassions when the co2 is off , for maintenance or other reasons , i notice Ph levels of close to 8 [:0]

    Any one knows what Ph level coral chips level off at ? or they will go on and on and on ..... till its straight 14 ?!

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    I didn't know coral can raise PH. Thought it only contain calcium....ended up in very high KH...like 16deg.

    that was my experience....has removed the coral since.

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    Coral chips have bicarbonates (just like your baking soda) with Mg and Ca. They raise kH as well as pH. Not to mention gH also.

    You can control the amount of coral chips you put into the system so you can get your desired kH. You control the pH using CO2 injection.

    I only put a small fistful of coral chips in my external filter. Before my weekly water change, my 3 tanks has these pairs of values: (6.8 pH, 3 dkH), (6.6 pH, 2 dkH), (7 pH, 5 dkH). OK, right?

    Personally, I find coral chips useful to give the kH as well as providing the nutrients Mg and Ca. So I don't have to bother with baking soda.
    koah fong
    Juggler's tanks

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    On 7/29/2003 4:34:53 PM

    I didn't know coral can raise PH. Thought it only contain calcium....ended up in very high KH...like 16deg.

    that was my experience....has removed the coral since.
    ----------------
    If you have very high CO2 and don't change water regularly, you get that high.

    I noticed if I change 50% water weekly my KH is 3~4. Once fortnightly, KH 5~8.

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    Geoffrey,
    I have co2 at 1bps for 14inch tank and change water 25% weekly. PH6.6, KH6 (without the coral)

    I tried once with a fistful of coral chips in my 14inch tank. I place it inside the IOS compartment.

    I change 25% water every week. Realise my KH climb sky high to 15degree at the end of the week. So I remove them.

    Even wihout the coral, my tank will climb from 4 deg to 6deg at the end of the week. Don't know what is the reason. My gravel has got no coral and non-reactive type.

    Some say Yamato shell? But I only got 3 of them? any idea?

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    If you have very bright light source, control the amount of coral chips used....if you have a KH reading of 8 to 10, you dont really need to inject CO2 as the plants is able to get their carbon supply from the bicarbonate present.
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    -----------
    If you have very bright light source, control the amount of coral chips used....if you have a KH reading of 8 to 10, you dont really need to inject CO2 as the plants is able to get their carbon supply from the bicarbonate present.

    -----------

    Oh , i nv knew it worked that way too [:0]

    Thanks for the Tip cos i usually get rather high KH readings , i just measured . Its a 15 , ph is around 6.5-7 colour range [] think i can save the gas for about two to 3 days maybe []


    Btw , anyone has any idea on Where to get this Co2 Tubing ? cos i've been reading and this "Osmotic loss" seems to bother me , esp after tank refills .[]

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    FYI, plants prefer CO2 uptake then bicarbonates. Several species of plants like Echinodorus, Ludwigia, mosses or Riccia will have greater problem with bicarbonates.

    IMO, unless you'll doing a non-CO2 / low lighting tank, else CO2 is still a need to inject. Algae uptake bicarbonate faster then plants. Unless your experience prove such theory wrong, I would be glad to know.

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    I don't like plants sourcing C from bicarbonate. It causes decalcification, you will see a layer of calcium deposits accumulating on some plants.

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    oh , so from what is happening , i guess the rite thing to do now is to lower Co2 injection

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    ----------------
    On 7/30/2003 1:26:56 AM

    -----------
    If you have very bright light source, control the amount of coral chips used....if you have a KH reading of 8 to 10, you dont really need to inject CO2 as the plants is able to get their carbon supply from the bicarbonate present.

    -----------

    Oh , i nv knew it worked that way too [:0]

    Thanks for the Tip cos i usually get rather high KH readings , i just measured . Its a 15 , ph is around 6.5-7 colour range [] think i can save the gas for about two to 3 days maybe []


    Btw , anyone has any idea on Where to get this Co2 Tubing ? cos i've been reading and this "Osmotic loss" seems to bother me , esp after tank refills .[]
    ----------------
    Although plants can do this... it's not as good as CO2. It's easier for the plants to strip the C from CO2, hence they prefer CO2. Also note David said "VERY BRIGHT LIGHTS"... meaning above the usual 3WPG recommendation. Personally, I would prefer just enough lights to get my plants growing well and not have to worry about extra heat, electrical consumption and tank-top space problems. I don't think the trade off is worth it.
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    On 7/30/2003 12:58:14 PM

    oh , so from what is happening , i guess the rite thing to do now is to lower Co2 injection
    ----------------
    The right thing to do is check your tap water if it is really high KH and confirm if you kit is telling you correctly. It hard for me to believe a reading that high even without coral in your tank. Something might be wrong with the kit. BTW, do you get problems with your soap to lather when you bath? Soap in hardwater don't lather easily.

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    Under very bright light will be worse for plants. Due to higher energy, and insufficient CO2, plants would have to grab in whatever sources, whether through substrate, or its own respiration, bicarbonate, or even storage of malate - just to survive with enough C.

    But such process are not efficient and require more work. Plants would be easily stunted. When such thing happen, it become unhealthy and start showing signs of deficiency, then algae will flourish better than plants.

    That's how I understand.

    I agree with you about having just enough light. In fact, I'm planning to reduce my tank lighting to < 2.5W/gal and see whether it works for my tank.

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    Hi naturetan

    if you have read on biotopes where most of our aquatic plants come from, reading from water samples taken have very low CO2 and extremely high KH as well as GH.

    CO2 is used for a planted tank as its the cheapest and easiest delivery system of Carbon needed for plant growth. In the wild, I dont think there are CO2 tanks injecting CO2 into the river or streams.....
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    Sorry David, I'm ignorant and didn't read that. Check with you again, are they mostly running at high or low ligting? I understand low light is possible, but how about high light?

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    But David, have to also consider that most plants are growing in the marshes in the wild. So their have aerial advantage at absorbing atmospheric CO2.

    Just like at Teo's.
    koah fong
    Juggler's tanks

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    Actually in nature, our rivers and streams are usually rich in dissolved organic carbon, provided by many decomposed matter. And species that are unable to use bicarbonates have to rely on decomposition to get enough CO2, besides those means above.

    That's why it's unlike our home aquarium, where low maintenance & lower lighting for non-CO2, or high maintenance for artificial injection & higher lighting, is needed for a balance ecology. That's what I think.

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    I agree with Jug and NatureTan, plants in nature source C more from DOC and the atmosphere through aerial advantage than through the high KH.

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    nbk3,

    Coral chips are a stable source of CaCO3 where it possesses an important PH stabilising property where we can use for planted tank.

    Based on my observation, CaCO3 will start to break down in water when PH falls below 6.7 at 0 KH. This happens when we inject CO2 into water. Then, CaCO3 will be eroded to give out useful Ca and also increase the meaningful KH. The KH (measurement of alkaline intensity) brings up the PH, thereby perform its¡¯ PH stabilising task.

    However, if the CO2 injection rate is not keep in check and allowed to run higher than desired where PH is further driven down, CaCO3 will continue to be eroded and resulted in higher KH. It is just trying to stabilise the PH. That is what happened to you.

    Reducing the CO2 and coral chips (50g last for months) such that you get 2~3 KH and PH of 6.4.

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    On 7/31/2003 8:56:51 PM

    nbk3,

    Coral chips are a stable source of CaCO3 where it possesses an important PH stabilising property where we can use for planted tank.

    Based on my observation, CaCO3 will start to break down in water when PH falls below 6.7 at 0 KH. This happens when we inject CO2 into water. Then, CaCO3 will be eroded to give out useful Ca and also increase the meaningful KH. The KH (measurement of alkaline intensity) brings up the PH, thereby perform its¡¯ PH stabilising task.

    However, if the CO2 injection rate is not keep in check and allowed to run higher than desired where PH is further driven down, CaCO3 will continue to be eroded and resulted in higher KH. It is just trying to stabilise the PH. That is what happened to you.

    Reducing the CO2 and coral chips (50g last for months) such that you get 2~3 KH and PH of 6.4.

    ----------------

    hmmm....... the only problem i seem to be facing now is that my Manual regulator is abit quirky , the output dies off after a day or two . I'm thinking that it might be due to heat , like where it expands n contracts , so i might try to insulate the whole thing [] maybe wrap the whole SOB with foam , lol . But its just a wild thought

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