Water hardness manipulation ...

[nbk3]

Ok , The main things that contribute to high KH would be coral chips . But the main thing that buffers the PH is also coral chips .

I'm using a Ocean free Base fert and it has peat so i'm guessing it would contribute to PH lowering too .

The coral chips i have in the tank are scattered , and also about two fist fulls of it in the canister filter .

If i was aiming for a lower ph of say .... 4 or so ? would it be wise to remove ALL of my coral chips ???

btw , i'm injecting CO2 in a 2 footer .

[vinz]

In your tank, the main contributor to KH would be coral chips if you are not adding anything else that would raise KH. It is the KH that is buffering your pH.

I.e. Coral chips->raise KH->buffer pH.
NOT Raise KH<-Coral chips->Buffer pH.

Whether or not your base fert is lowering the pH depends on (1) how much peat is in the basefert (2) how much water travels in and out of your substrate. A lot of uprooting may make a difference too.

Coral chips dissolve slowly and constantly, thus raising your GH and KH constantly. I.e. If you were to test your water after water change, one week after that and then another week after that, you will see the GH and KH getting higher. So you can't really keep the KH constant without regular water change.

On the other hand, the peat is lowering your KH at the same time the coral chips are raising it. Whether the KH goes up or down depends on how much coral there are.

If you do not have any KH, then the pH swings from CO2 differences thruout the day would be larger and potentially harmful/fatal to the fishes if the swings are too large. Better to keep some coral chips in the tank.

I don't think anyone can give you a definite answer about how much coral chips to leave in the tank as it's a moving target depending on your water change schedule and amount. You have to experiment by removing the coral chips and testing the water. Do massive water changes to lower the current KH if necessary and do regular water changes to keep within the levels you want.

[nbk3]

ah , i see

btw, kh , dh , gh . these are all used to measure the Hardness , but which is which ?? at the moment i am only sure of KH which is like the amount of carbonates in the water .

As a side question , would plants do well in high kh situations ?? or would it be the-lower-the-better ?

[PeterGwee]

dh? No such stuff. GH..general hardness value...fish care about this than KH. Plants preferring some KH is a myth again...what they prefer is CO2.

[nbk3]

hmmm...... i could have sworn that i've seen dh being used bfore

"healthy plants are ones that keep photosynthisizing thus creating a bubbling/pearling effect everytime the lights are on "

I quoted this from another forum , isit true ??

[theodore]

DH

[Plantbrain]

A pH of 4?
Unless you keep Killis or some weird fish, this is not needed.

You'd need no KH at all to achieve this and if you have no buffer(the KH), then you should never use the acid(the CO2).
You will not be able to control the pH if you do this nor will you be able to measure the pH with a probe/test kit etc.

Very pure water has no buffering ability and therefore has no application to a an acid base buffered system. The pH will jump all over as a result of even a tiny amount of acid and the rebound if the acid(CO2 in the case ) is remove either by plants or to the air above.

This is why a recommendation of a KH of 3 degrees(~50ppm) or higher is suggested when using CO2 injection. If you don't, you'll kill your fish very likely and the plants won't grow well either.

I know of no common or semi rare fish except a few Killis that really might even need such pure water. Discus/Altums are quite fine at a KH/GH of 3 and breed(Discus) fine also. Few natural occuring waters are a pH of 4.7 or less.
4.7-5.3 are common in tannic blackwater regions here in Florida but you need a special probe to measure these since the common pH probes are made for waters with some KH present.
Many readings, especially those by hobbyist and collectors are erroroneous and subject to suspicion from these regions(eg. Rio Negro).

Regards,
Tom Barr

[nbk3]

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On 8/14/2003 5:14:42 AM

A pH of 4?
Unless you keep Killis or some weird fish, this is not needed.

You'd need no KH at all to achieve this and if you have no buffer(the KH), then you should never use the acid(the CO2).
You will not be able to control the pH if you do this nor will you be able to measure the pH with a probe/test kit etc.

Very pure water has no buffering ability and therefore has no application to a an acid base buffered system. The pH will jump all over as a result of even a tiny amount of acid and the rebound if the acid(CO2 in the case ) is remove either by plants or to the air above.

This is why a recommendation of a KH of 3 degrees(~50ppm) or higher is suggested when using CO2 injection. If you don't, you'll kill your fish very likely and the plants won't grow well either.

I know of no common or semi rare fish except a few Killis that really might even need such pure water. Discus/Altums are quite fine at a KH/GH of 3 and breed(Discus) fine also. Few natural occuring waters are a pH of 4.7 or less.
4.7-5.3 are common in tannic blackwater regions here in Florida but you need a special probe to measure these since the common pH probes are made for waters with some KH present.
Many readings, especially those by hobbyist and collectors are erroroneous and subject to suspicion from these regions(eg. Rio Negro).

Regards,
Tom Barr



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[] [] Typo !! it's suppose to be KH , my bad . But in this typo , i have learnt quite a bit from u