Fish Died and I am Clueless

[ymmij]

Hi bros, I would like to seek some advice and opinion please.

A couple of weeks back I bought a Dymax IQ5 nano tank of total volume 13litres with the intention of setting up a Fowlr marine tank containing very few fish, maybe 2 clown fishes.

After putting in the sand and live rock and pouring in newly bought natural sea water from a fish farm, I started the cycling process. I put in a market prawn into the tank but only for 24 hours as it smells after that period. I have wool, Japanese mat and biohome plus in the filtration area. I poured waterlife bacteria life about alternative days into the tank. I leave the LED lights on for about 12 hours daily.

After about 2 weeks of cycling I am prepared. Even though I did not measure the various ammonia, nitrite and nitrate level, I am pretty sure they should be of acceptable readings. Therefor yesterday afternoon I made a trip to the very same fish farm and purchase one small piece of clown fish and a new bag of nsw.

Back home, I did a 100% water change and then the proper process of putting the fish in, like equalizing the temperature, letting small amount of water into the bag etc etc. The small clown fish was released into the tank 5 hours after. No feeding was done. Lights were off at night when I went to sleep.

It was swimming around, and everything seemed fine. This morning when woke up, it was found dead.

I am puzzled and clueless on what happened. I have came up with a few possibilities and hope that bros here could maybe tell me more.

1. The tank was not totally cycled. But I did a 100% water change so whatever traces of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate would have been removed. I dun think one small clown fish is able to produced enough ammonia in a say 10litres tank to create ammonia spike. Not to mentioned whatever beneficial bacterias that were already cultivated.
2. The fish was already sick in the very first place. That I could not tell as it was swimming happily in the tank in the farm, although it was the only piece of clown fish left there that cost $2.
3. The process of putting the fish into the tank was compromised. I took due care in doing so and I dun think that could be the cause.

I am now at lost of what to do except to continue to leave the filtration running with the sand and live rock in the tank.

All comments, and suggestions are welcomed. Thanks.

[ymmij]

A picture of my tank:

[|squee|]

I don't know much about marine tanks (I'm from the freshwater side) but basically I do know that marine fish are much more susceptible to water conditions, which means that you at least should have purchased a couple of test kits to test for ammonia and nitrite.

I don't mean to sound harsh but I don't understand the rationale for the 100% water change. That 100% water change would have up-ended the balance in the 10L tank (which is too small, I hope you got the number wrong, because in a 10L tank I doubt the clownfish would have survived for long too).

BTW, your pic is not working

And yes, I've read on how most clownfish caught from the wild have high mortality rates and at $2, the shop was probably expecting its last piece to not last long too.

[ymmij]

thanks for the reply. not sure why you are not able to view coz i am seeing the image clearly.

freshwater and sea water are generally different. by default, natural sea water has zero ammonia, nitrite and nitrate unlike freshwater. so by doing a 100% water change before putting the clown fish into the tank, i am giving it a clean environment, unless of course the nsw could be contaminated though i bought from a reputable fish farm.

for a 10litrers tank, keeping 2 clown fish with live rock and decent filtration is definitely doable as it has already be proven many times over. i personally dun think bio-load is a problem here.

me still puzzled....

[vinz]

Because your photo is hosted on AF and I believe AF does not allow hot-linking to photos hosted in their gallery.

[icefire]

what's the temperature of your water? I've heard that marine tanks need waters of below 27 degrees celcius but I'm not sure whether that's the cause for the death. and 10L IMHO is very small(:

[ymmij]

I have uploaded the image onto flickr. Please find the image below:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/57807853@N03/5403234013/

[BFG]

Sorry but I have to say this to educate you.

Nano tank are harder to maintain than a large tank due to the fact that there is a small volume of water present and any changes to the water chemistry always carry the risk that the tank might crash if it is not caught and corrected early. Small volume of water is harder to maintain without the help of necessary equipment. A newbie might fail if he/she has not done a proper research on the upkeep of a nano tank. Yes, you could go to other forums and look and see other enthusiast successfully keeping a nano tank but you fail to realize that they know a lot more than you do. The basic knowledge of cycling and bacteria population are an important knowledge to know, without understanding of these important information, whatever you do to correct the situation, success will always avoid you and your set up.

What is happening to your tank now is that it has started the cycling process again due to the new water that you introduce, another important knowledge that you do not know of. Nobody in their right mind would do a 100% water change, less they're going to re-do their tank after a crash. This action would surely kill the base support form of life that is critical in an enclosed environment. If your thought to use this tank as a form of decoration for the festive period, I suggest otherwise. It might smell worst before the situation gets better.

freshwater and sea water are generally different. by default, natural sea water has zero ammonia, nitrite and nitrate unlike freshwater. so by doing a 100% water change before putting the clown fish into the tank, i am giving it a clean environment, unless of course the nsw could be contaminated though i bought from a reputable fish farm.

How do you know without testing their levels? Both cycles are present in freshwater and saltwater alike. Since you do not have a test kit to use, why did you assume the water is contaminated when it was a mistake on your part to do a 100% water change. It is easy to put a blame on something you do not know. Reputable fish farm doesn't mean a thing. Up to now, I still do not know how you know the salt level of your salt water. It could be this reason that the fish died of, have you ever thought of that?

for a 10litrers tank, keeping 2 clown fish with live rock and decent filtration is definitely doable as it has already be proven many times over. i personally dun think bio-load is a problem here.

Yes, you are right, it is doable..........by people who know what they are doing. Without doing a proper research, you are missing a few pieces of jigsaw puzzle to complete your picture. It wouldn't look complete.

1. The tank was not totally cycled. But I did a 100% water change so whatever traces of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate would have been removed. I dun think one small clown fish is able to produced enough ammonia in a say 10litres tank to create ammonia spike. Not to mentioned whatever beneficial bacterias that were already cultivated.

The rock that you have are not live rock per se. They are just rocks for aesthetic purpose. Using them, your bio filtration levels might be at most 5%. Branching rocks and flat pieces of rock are not a good media to house bacteria. This info I provide to you for free as you journey to gain more knowledge about this side of the hobby.

2. The fish was already sick in the very first place. That I could not tell as it was swimming happily in the tank in the farm, although it was the only piece of clown fish left there that cost $2.

Sick fish don't swim happily. Another free advice for you. How do you know it was happy in the 1st place?

3. The process of putting the fish into the tank was compromised. I took due care in doing so and I dun think that could be the cause.

Did you measure the salt levels of your tank water and that of the water in the bag with the fish?

Read up more.

[ymmij]

thank you BFG for taking the time and effort to correct my mistakes....

i am still digesting what you have written....

[BFG]

Please take your time to do your research. There are no finishing line for you to cross. Do a set up that addresses the need of the inhabitant but also meet the need of you having a nice aquascaping theme. Keep reading and look at various tank in the internet via forums. Get the biggest tank you can afford and equipped it with quality brand equipment. Certain equipment you can use those made in China ones as their technology are on par with their european counterpart but this apply for a certain brand only. Look for lower wattage equipment so that you can prolong this hobby for a longer time frame as our local electricity tariff keeps going up and up. Be mindful of what you want your marine tank to look as but be flexible in your planning as you might find certain chores that might impede you should you plan your set up to use certain equipment that could hinder your maintenance procedure. Try to think ahead before implementing something to your set up.

Remember, this is a wallet draining hobby. You will spend a lot of funds so prioritize your purchase. Use the KISS method ( Keep It Simple Stupid ). Have fun and hope this helps!

[Victor]

Hi ymmij,

I am guessing from the information you provided there are a few possible factors...ready sea water and live rock and sand may contain live organism which may be unseen to the naked eye which may attach themselves to the livestock you put in and attack them thus killing them…or…the clown fish you bought is actually very sensitive and needs to have correct water parameters in order to keep it or it may be sick already…and did you also wash the stuff you bought thoroughly before you use?
My suggestion for you when you start over again is to have a small skimmer running at the inside and have a bare bottom tank for the start and use also Salinity hydrometer and test kits to test your water parameters before adding in your precious livestock.
Need more help contact me and i see if i can help you. Sorry for your loss.

Regards,
Victor

[limco]

I am also new in saltwater. I have the exactly same tank as ymmij. I read BFG comments and have also learned from them. I did not expect having saltwater is a new ball game. But I like saltwater fish a lot than fresh water that is why I never quit yet though it starts to pinch my pocket already.

I think even with a new salt water, you still need to put in the anti chlorine solution. That is what I learned from the fish store where I bought my aquarium. Then add solution to speed up bacteria growth... let it run for 2-3 hours I think its better to put it there than taking chances. By the way, where is this fish farm that you are talking about? is this still in business until today? How to get there as well?

I read quite a number of info on how to care for saltwater aquarium but still committing errors... I guess salt water fishes are really challenging. I bought test kits as well. Now this is my fourth try hope this one will be successful. One thing I do not have in saltwater hobby is the wait to cycle the water. Anyone can give info how to add water as well?

[BFG]

Aiyoh, seems reading to gain more knowledge might be a chore to you future reef keeper. Running in is still needed for your tank setup and it is best to let the water run for a month or more to let the ANN cycle complete. Basic equipment you need to have are a refractometer and a bottle of a product called Pinpoint Salinity Monitor 53.0mS calibration fluid. You need these 2 to calibrate and find out what level of salinity your saltwater are on. Do not buy the floating or the swing arm hydrometer as they are not accurate. You need your salt water to hit as close as possible to 1.026 on your refractometer. Try to keep your tank water temperature to below 28 degrees. Also another purchase that is essential is to have a distilled water filter and synthetic salt. If you do not have these, you are flying in the dark.

If waiting for the water to finish the ANN cycle is a chore, you might have an uphill battle to keep animals alive in the tank. Without completing the ANN cycle, you do not have the correct bacteria to help break down the waste material in the water column. You need to let the ANN cycle complete before adding live stock.

Other equipment to have are protein skimmer, return pump ( for a tank with sump setup), chiller and lighting.

[limco]

Thanks for the inputs BFG! Sounds like you are into this business for a long time already Looking into the two basic equipment you mentioned sad to say I already bought those floating hydrometer already. Checking on the price list, I came to know the price of Pinpoint Salinity Monitor mesuring tool. Not cheap though but you mentioned about an alternative, a refractometer(which is I believe cheaper) and only use it with Pinpoint Salinity Monitor 53.0mS calibration fluid. Not sure how to use it yet though, hoping I will bump into it in my future readings. Do you have any idea where I could buy all the items you mentioned here in Singapore? Any particular brand you can recommend for the refractometer? Having a protein skimmer inside a 13 liter tank is quite bulky though... I haven't seen on that is just right for my existing tank. I know I bought a substandard tank to care for saltwater fish... But space is my limitation...

Any inputs where I could buy marine fishes as well. So far I know only two. Plaza Singapura and Tampines. Thanks in advance.

[BFG]

No, you do not need the monitor but you need the refractometer and the calibration fluid. The calibration fluid, the Pinpoint Salinity Monitor 53.0mS calibration fluid cost about $10 or so for a bottle. The calibration fluid is used to calibrate the Pinpoint Salinity monitor but is also used as a standard example for a refractometer. Calibrating the refractometer to this calibration fluid ensure you are getting the correct standard in order to get your salinity level value correct.

As for marine lfs, there are about 4 at Pasir Ris. Look at the lfs directory.