Controlling NO3 in new tank

[hobbit6003]

Hi Guys,

Well, this is the first time I actually tested NO3 in a 1 wk old newly set up planted tank, and am getting a NO3 level of more than 40ppm. It is probably leaching out from the substrate fertiliser I guess.

I was wondering what you guys do to keep NO3 level in new tanks down, besides more regular water change? After a 60% water change, it goes down to about 20ppm, only for it to rebound to >40ppm within a day.

Thank God there's no algae YET. Heard abt the pdt Algone, which purportedly works by removal of excess NO3, wondering should I try to use it in my tank now, to curb the leaching NO3 from my tank?

Other water parameters includes:

pH - 6.8-7.2
kH- 3
water temp -26-28 deg C
Fe - 0.25ppm
PO4 - 0.25ppm


Cheers,

Kenny

[bclee]

Plant heavily. Increase your CO2 a little more to drop the pH to 6.5.

Keep up with dosing of K and traces and maybe PO4. The plants should keep the NO3 level in check.

Refrain from overfeeding too.

BC

[naturetan]

Increase PO4. It will help speed up your tank NO3 consumption. Is your bioload high? What tank size and lighting you're running? Also remove any dead corpses you can find.

Your CO2 not enough, try to get PH 6.5 at KH3

There's a thread discussion on Algone product, make a search to find out more. Generally, I wouldn't encourage you to use it.

[hobbit6003]

Hi all,

Forgot to state my tank size and lighting. It is a 4 x 2 x 2 ft tank and I've gotten a total of 8 x 36 W PL lights on it.

Currently it is into its 2nd week, and my photoperiod is 5 hrs for now, which I'd increase by 1 hr every week till I hit 8hrs.

I've gotten 40 stalks of hygrophila difformis and another 20 stalks of an unknown stem plants in there. This, however, only occupies 1/3 of the tank, as I planted quite densely. For the next 2/3 of the tank, I've gotten mainly tennellus running, with also a bunch of heterazanthera zosterfolia (stargrass). They're all doing well, as the stem plants have almost reached the water surface, and the tenellus having many runners out, all within the first week! As for oxygen saturation during photoperiod, I think it is within the first 2 hrs of lghts on.

As for bioload, I've only gotten 40 yamatos in there, feeding on whatever they can find in the tank. This, I don't think it is considered high in a 400L tank.

This is the first time I actually measured the NO3 in a 1 wk old tank. And all the while in my old tank, my NO3 level had been relatively low at 10ppm, too low in fact.

Cheers,

Kenny

[juggler]

Interesting. What substrate fertiliser are you using that made NO3 high?

[hobbit6003]

Hi jug,

I used 4 tubs of Hexa, as prescribed, even though I felt that it could do with a thicker fertiliser layer. At 5 - 8 cm of gravel was used to top it up.

It is getting better today, it is betw. 20 - 40ppm, as dictated by the colour chart. This is 2 days after water change.

Cheers,

Kenny

[geoffrey]

Don't worry about your NO3 at 40ppm. It's probably the result of nitrogen cycle, a sign that your filter is now colonised with bacteria. It will come down if you provide enough CO2, K, TE and PO4 (if there isn't any) and lot of plants. In fact, your difformis will probably suck them dry in no time!

[hobbit6003]

Well, at the present, all still seem fine and sunny. PO4 level is still quite acceptable, but dun think I've gotten a way of measuring K. Anyway, I still got quite a bit of K2SO4 with me, so I think I may just push the K up a bit.

Guess I've got not much choice, except to change water more frequently for these few weeks while waiting for the plants to exert themselves.

Cheers,

Kenny

[PeterGwee]

I can only tell you the kit is a junk...well, thats me. An increase of 20ppm of nitrate in one day would mean large of amount of ammonia should be present before hand..if that is the case, you would definitely be hit by greenwater and lots of other kind of algae. Why isn't it there? Something is not right here with the kit you are using. Unless you are dosing KNO3 that is.

[vinz]

I wouldn't say the kit is comepletely junk... at least it gives you a (very) rough idea of where you stand.

Just because he measured 40ppm NO3 today, it does not mean it was all converted from ammonia in a short period. It's just an accumulation of NO3 converted since the tank was set up. The ammonia may not have stayed ammonia for very long at all.

[PeterGwee]

9/15/2003 3:30:18 PM
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After a 60% water change, it goes down to about 20ppm, only for it to rebound to >40ppm within a day.

-------------------------------

Cheers,

Kenny

I was wondering about this sudden rise instead of the initial one which might be from a normal nitrogen cycle..but this is not usual at all. Its too short a period and if it happens, the spike in ammonia should kill off his shrimps. I might be wrong though...I just hope he doesn't think the kit is as accurate as it should be..use your plants as a judge. If the nitrate is so much, then providing the rest of the nutrients should help your plants pick up and grow at break necking speed after 3-4 weeks if it is stunt at the moment.

[hobbit6003]

Hi Peter,

Yeah, I'd usually give a discount to the reading I get from test kits. When I got a dark red (in excess of 40ppm) reading on my test kit, I immediately did a check using distilled water as a control, and I registered nothing. Thus, the test kit should be functional. Test kits usually are used as a rough gauge only, giving only therabouts reading. Still, it raised an alarm bell in me.

Since the setup is new and the bioload light, I'd assume that these nitrates could have leached out from the substrate fertiliser itself. I've just measured the water again, and it is now registered betw. 20 and 40ppm, as indicated as orangy red solution. The excess NO3 can't possibly be a result of the nitrogen cycle, since the tank is only 1 wk old, and that it wouldn't be stable for the base fert to contain ammonium compound. N from the base fert should come from a nitrate source, in my opinion.

Since the plants are growing well for now, I'd just continue my daily testing on parameters like Fe, PO4, NO3 for the next week and monitor the trend.

Hmm......do you guys think that I can wait adding TE till the tank is 1 mth old?

Cheers,

Kenny

[PeterGwee]

Nope, don't wait. Get your CO2 fixed then move on straight to your fertilization. Stopping fertilization due to fear for algae is wrong..supply all the nutrients plants need and they should grow well and leave nothing much for the algae to thrive. Stopping will stunt them and it will take much longer for plants to recover and grow.

[hobbit6003]

Hi Peter,

Yup, I'm now fine tuning my CO2 injection, so that I can get the pH down to 6.5 during lights on period. With a kH of 3, that should give me more than 20ppm.

My hygrophilas have mostly shot up to the water surface, and I think I may need to trim within the next 2 days. The stargrasses after the initial melt down, have now started to grow again. Tenellus, as usual, is spreading like wild fires.

I've gotten K2SO4, and still have Dennerle S7 and Dr Mallick's Lushgrow left. Do you know any commercial prep that gives PO4. I think I need that as a standby, as I hope to maintain a PO4 of 0.25ppm.

Cheers,

Kenny

[PeterGwee]

Forget about the 0.25ppm of PO4 you need to maintain. Just dose 0.5-1ppm worth of PO4 2-3 times per week from either KH2PO4 or from Seachem phosphorus and forget about it...you don't need such precise measurement of PO4..just make sure it doesn't run out for the week would do. Organic PO4 does influence the kit somehow so you don't really know whether you are measuring organic or inorganic PO4...plants cannot use organic PO4.

[geoffrey]

----------------
On 9/16/2003 10:24:49 AM

Forget about the 0.25ppm of PO4 you need to maintain. Just dose 0.5-1ppm worth of PO4 2-3 times per week from either KH2PO4 or from Seachem phosphorus and forget about it...you don't need such precise measurement of PO4..just make sure it doesn't run out for the week would do. Organic PO4 does influence the kit somehow so you don't really know whether you are measuring organic or inorganic PO4...plants cannot use organic PO4.
----------------

My exact sentiments. I find no qualms dosing PO4 in the beginning. At 0.25ppm, to me it just as good as not having PO4 at all. Extra PO4 helps uptake of NO3 too. I suggest using KH2PO4 instead of Seachem's PO4, it cost effective. Afterall, Dr M has now a 250g packaging, enough to last you a long time.

[hobbit6003]

Thanks guys,

For the re-affiirmation! Yeah, I'll do just that and continue to observe the plant growth! How concept have changed over the years, from nutrient limitation to increased balance nutrition to accelerate plant growth!

It makes sense of course, as greater and healthier plant growth would mean reduced algae problems.

Thanks guys!

Cheers,

Kenny

[vinz]

----------------
On 9/16/2003 12:37:41 AM

9/15/2003 3:30:18 PM
-------------------------------

After a 60% water change, it goes down to about 20ppm, only for it to rebound to >40ppm within a day.

-------------------------------

Cheers,

Kenny

I was wondering about this sudden rise instead of the initial one which might be from a normal nitrogen cycle..but this is not usual at all. Its too short a period and if it happens, the spike in ammonia should kill off his shrimps. I might be wrong though...I just hope he doesn't think the kit is as accurate as it should be..use your plants as a judge. If the nitrate is so much, then providing the rest of the nutrients should help your plants pick up and grow at break necking speed after 3-4 weeks if it is stunt at the moment.
----------------

ARGH! My bad! Apologies.

[PeterGwee]

No apologies needed... We are all here to share and help. []

[hobbit6003]

Ok, just tested my water for NO3 after lights off, and it has steadily climbed down to nearly 20ppm. Test done last night at the same time yielded betw 20-40ppm, closer to the 40 mark. Whether the test kit is accurate or not, it sure does indicate a slow drop of NO3 in there.

Before lights on today, I added Seachem's potassium, raising whatever existing K level in there by 1ppm only.

As for the PO4 and Fe level, still maintained at 0.25ppm or thereabouts. Haha, still have no courage to add PO4 into my tank!

The irony is, without much algae in the new tank, my yamato is seen nipping at my Blyxa japonica. Damn shrimps! Luckily there's only the occasional leaves that get chomped off, the new ones still intact.

Cheers,

Kenny