My eusteralis stellata is spotting twisted and bent leaves, i am currently using lushgro aqua,weekly doses of K2SO4(about 20ppm) and Dr Mallick's trace elements.PH 6.5-7,KH 4,GH 5,NO3 10-20ppm and Fe 0.5ppm.The above mentioned ferts do not seem to carry Ca in them.From my plant's condition,does it point to Ca defiency?Though my GH is 5 but i'm not so sure what's the proportion of calcium in it.
Is is possible for me to find out my calcium content? Sera's Ca test kit seems to be for marine usage and won't be suitable for lower ppm.
Should i be getting CaCl or CaCO3 tablets?
Lastly after each water change should i dose in an entire weekly dosage of fert? What i am doing now is storing my weekly dosages of the 3 fert in bottles of mixture and dosing them daily,would this allow for better absorption since unused nutrients are oxidised.
Some of us, including me, experienced Ca deficieny when we dose K to 20ppm weekly. I guess this is partly due to insufficient Ca and Mg in relation to K. While some folks have dosed up to 30ppm or more without problem and I believe they also have more Ca and Mg in their tanks.
Maybe you try reducing K to 10ppm and observe for up to a month to see if there is any improvements.
Supplementing Ca helps too.
koah fong
Juggler's tanks
Don't be afraid of my duck!
I dose lots of K, and my tank's KH is very low (and GH probably as well), so I recently started adding Seachem's Reef Calcium (one capful a week for a 3 ft tank), which I found results in most robust and larger new foliage. Maybe you could try it out (not necessarily Seachem of course).
Mmmmmmm...another case of Ca deficiency symptoms. I am still kinda puzzled by the real source of problem...too high K or something else. Folks over at AB thinks it is high K whereas Tom Barr and Toshi have no experiences with such symptoms even though they went to extreme levels of K (both are very liberal about dosing high traces and have tried it with low GH levels down to 3dGH). I am now doing an experiment to see if its the lack of traces that is causing all this. It will take 3-4 weeks to know the outcome though but meanwhile you can try sticking a calcium carbonate tablet under the plant to see if it helps.
Maybe some of you having the symptoms can provide me with some info on your fert regime. How much K you are adding...how much traces you are adding..tank volume...amount of water change done...weekly or fortnightly.
Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger
Alrite thanks guys, so i guess maybe i should either reduce my k or add some Ca to it which i think i should favour the latter.So where can i get CaCl,don't think Dr Mallick has it.
So there's no way to determine the amount of Ca in the GH?
And would it be more advisable to do weekly dosages or daily ones,like i mentioned i broke down my weekly dosages into daily proportions by mixing them in bottles of water.
Initially when I had the same problem, I dosed CaCO3 tablets to test the K:Mg:Ca relationship Juggler has explained. In my earlier high K and high Mg regime, supplementing Ca helps. But all these extra go to waste with each water change.
Lowering K and Mg also helps and that do away with the need for extra Ca. In fact, Lushgrow Aqua has K already, why dose K2SO4 to such high level? In what amount are you dosing LGA? Dose K to an aggregate of 20~30ppm should more than suffice. Watch your Mg from LGA too.
Anybody who went to aquarama post this problem to Ole or the folks from Tropica?
Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger
BTW, do you have Hygrophila or Lobelia in your tanks? They are the best indicators for this problem. Hygrophila's new shoots will be twisted, curled and deformed. Lobelia will have white streaks on their leaves.
Hi Geoffrey, at this moment i'm dosing 5ml of LGA, half tsp of K2SO4(calculated using Chuck Gadd's calculator,about 23ppm) and 8 drops of trace elements all apportioned into daily dosages. Not too sure if this is too much,my 2 ft planted tank is about 2 months old.
Plants in my tank are eusteralis stellata, rotala macrandra,ludwigia arcuata,blyxa japonica,glosso and elatine triandra.Except for eusteralis stellata,the rest seem to spot normal leaves.
Eusteralis stellata....I have them in my tank but they show no calcium deficiency symptoms. My nesaea sp does show this symptoms though...I pointing the finger at the traces for the moment though as some folks like Tom, his members at SFBAAPS and toshi have no problems with growing some of the funny plants mentioned even though their GH is only 3 like us. The only thing that is different is probably the traces. Addition of calcium carbonate should solve the problem provided you stick it in the substrate under the plant. Hey..we are not growing marine plants are we? []
Zarkre, you would need to consider the amount of K from the Lushgro Aqua. The 20-30ppm of K applies to the total added and not just from K2SO4. The range given by Tom is pretty big and that he mention it is best done with 50% weekly water changes. If you are not doing that much water change, I caution you to be on the lower side though.
Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger
Hi Peter,yah i'm doing 50% changes of water weekly and the reason why i'm adding K2SO4 besides LGA was to probably just push it up to 30ppm since i thought additional K would not affect algae or fauna in any way but guess i missed out on the k,mg and ca relationship. by the way why restrict caco3 to only sticking into the substrate,what adverse effects would leeching of CaCo3 into the water column cause?
For calculating K in LGA, take 51.711 X 5ml (your dose) / 70L (your water volume). That is ~3ppm of K plus 23ppm from K2SO4, ~28ppm.
May be a false alarm. Personally, Stellata are pretty difficult to grow. Very often my new shoots die on me, they shrink. Anyway, you can try lowering K to 15~20ppm and see if it improves. I doubt it's the same problem Juggler and myself encountered.
What about C, N and P...are they okay?
Zarkre, 1 tablet of calcium carbonate is very concentrated as compared to the amount folks are dosing to the water column. You are going to make your water rock hard if you consider dosing the water column. Dosing directly under the plant means the concentrated amount of calcium is readily available and the symptom should be cured if it is really the calcium that is causing all this. Do note that judging deficiencies base on looks can be dangerous. Low N and traces can cause such symptoms as well so what is it really then?
Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger
Hi Geo,i think my N and P should be fine,i'm not really adding any N except for LGA and P i'm only relying on my tank conditions and inhabitants.My bioload is rather low though, only 12 rummies, 1 oto, 3 cherry and 2 malayan shrimps in my 2 ft. For my CO2 i'm using 2 bottles of diy and a reactor,that should settle it too since my ph and kh are within the 'safe' range. Is it recommended to always keep K at a higher proportion than N and P so these two components would be readily absorped. Lesser algae woes?
Peter, i think i might just try CaCo3 tablets after all, my stellata currently occupies about 1/4 of my tank, so should i just insert only 1 tablet beneath all of them? And where can i get supplies of these tablets?Or issit possible for me to get CaCl? Any non dennerle tablets out there?
You can try getting them at pharmacies although I have no experience with them. Is your eusteralis stellata very red? If it is, it could be low N that is causing the stunting instead of the Ca.
Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger
I used to be using 1x55w pl,then the stellata was non red with some twisted leaves, now i've switched to 2x36w pl, the new shoots are reddish and normal looking but the older leaves are stiil twisted and bent.Could this also suggest low N since N is considered 'mobile' nutrients.
The generic CaCO3 tablets I used have 450mg of CaCO3/tab and some Vitamin D. 2~3 for a 2ft ought to be sufficient but that will affect your KH if you are also using coral.
N is mobile hence problems always appear on the older leaves if they are in short supply. Double check your CO2. Push it as high as you can without harming the live-stocks. Tropica recommends 20~50ppm!! It does wonder with good CO2.
I am skeptical about depending on live-stock for N and P. Many of us here have dose PO4 and NO3 without qualms. You may want to try.
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