Any equipment to inject CO2 into the tank without using diffusers?

[Mystikboy]

Wow I dive but I never found out how narcosis comes about. Thanks Shadow (:

[RonWill]

Wow I dive but I never found out how narcosis comes about

I don't suppose you dive past 100m but if you surface without intervals, you won't be here learning either.

Ralliart, if you want to minimize clutter within the tank (diffusers, tubings, etc), then go with something in-line.
Exhibit A is said to have issues with leakage.
Exhibit B is an atomizer (read, very fine bubbles) but requires high pressure.
Exhibit C, D & E are diffusers in different guises.
Exhibit F is commonly known as reactors (my favorite actually, but I usually reside that in the sump)

Tetrakid, our tanks' depths are too shallow to dive (pun intended) into gaseous exchange. Bottom line is, if you have surface agitation, increase your CO2 BPS.

[tetrakid]

I fully agree with Uncle Ronnie about increasing the CO2 bps if there's surface agitation.
If one wants luxuriant plants in a tank, one must be willing to pay the price, namely provide them with a goodly dose of cO2. This is the best approach.

But sadly, the wrong approach is often used, which is to stingily provide a minimal amount of CO2 and at the same time also prevent this from 'escaping' by minimising surface agitation. The downside of this is that it is done at the expense of the fish (and other organisms), depriving them of adequate oxygen.

[tetrakid]

If you knock my head, I will pinch your cheek, lol. Just kidding.

Can I knock your head?
Some details are still a good to know but no point thinking overly hard.

[felix_fx2]

If you knock my head, I will pinch your cheek, lol. Just kidding.

I helping you to fall asleep.

[ralliart12]

1. Old model us new model. newer model have double diffuser. need higher PSI to drive it also...

I suppose Exhibit B is the newer model? Anything bad with using higher PSI to drive it? Need any special equipment to provide this higher PSI?

...2. A and B both are inline...

In that case I supposed I'm looking for A/B, & not C/D/E then.

...but E is modeled after GLA's bazooka model... using 1 right now... able to diffuse extremely fine bubbles.. better then the bubbles from my boyu inline...

Actually, if the bubbles are broken down until too fine to be even seen by the naked eye, is it even better? @felix, how come you do not want to use inline diffusers?

...4. Reactor, in essence, holding the bubbles in contact with water longer... Absorption is Surface area and Time in contact with water...

Is the only disadvantage of using a reactor, that it takes up even more space than the under-water non-inline diffuser?

Looks like Raliiart really did his homework
felix just about answered you

Because I'm not too well-versed in these aquarium stuff, so I tend to ask a lot of noob-ish questions. All these CO2 questions is still to prepare for that one planted tank which I have been dry-starting still...

...If a diffuser is producing finer bubbles, more surface area in contact with water. The longer the water is in contact with water the more it is being absorbed....

deeper mean longer time for the CO2 bubble stay in the water...

Going by this same principle, is it safe for me position the inline diffuser before the canister filter?

Normal position (according to product poster): canister outflow pipe -> CO2 inline diffuser -> rainbar/lily pipe

What I want: CO2 inline diffuser -> canister inflow pipe -> canister filter -> canister outflow pipe -> rainbar/lily pipe

As I want the bubbles to be in contact with the water for as long as possible before being released into the tank (surface where they can escape, via the lily pipe/rainbar).

...Ralliart, if you want to minimize clutter within the tank (diffusers, tubings, etc), then go with something in-line...

Roger that. Actually not only do I want to minimize clutter, I also want as much things outside the tank so that I can easily maintain them.

...Exhibit A is said to have issues with leakage.
Exhibit B is an atomizer (read, very fine bubbles) but requires high pressure...

Oh? I thought Exhibit A is the succeeding model to Exhibit B? Got reports of leakage ah? I would expect a succeeding model (if A truly succeeds B) to be improved...again, any downside to providing higher pressure?

In fact, I thought Exhibit B was out for a long time already...

[Shadow]

The only thing I worried about putting inline difuser before filter is airlock.

unfortunately B is no longer available in Singapore (old stock may still available at some shop), the distributor told me that B is difficult to clean. I guess he never heard of H2O2 . Model A can be dismantle, thus easy to clean but it will leak if miss align or wear and tear.

[felix_fx2]

Raliart. You can try having prefilter attached after.

Tank->filter->inline->prefilter->tank

Note, this is not conventional method and it is double edged.
1: There will be co2 stuck inside the prefilter for quite sometime when running high bps. It will take long time to clear when co2 in the tank is already saturated.

2: it affects flow-rate since your using a prefilter as something like a mixer.

I used this method before to keep co2 bubbles in the water. All so I can see pearling rather then a flood of bubbles.
In the past my old canister filter was 800 l/h (I think so, cf800) the flow was just nice slow current I wanted back then.

[ralliart12]

The only thing I worried about putting inline difuser before filter is airlock...

Yes, I understand that. As a matter of fact, before considering using these external diffusers, I was intending to drill a hole in the inlet pipe & pipe the CO2 supply directly into the intake of the canister filter.

So I will say the risk of an airlock in the canister filter between my original approach & using an external diffuser, remains status quo.

...unfortunately B is no longer available in Singapore (old stock may still available at some shop)...

If anybody spots model B, can update here?

...the distributor told me that B is difficult to clean. I guess he never heard of H2O2 . Model A can be dismantle, thus easy to clean but it will leak if miss align or wear and tear.

Even external inline diffusers need to be cleansed?

Raliart. You can try having prefilter attached after.

Tank->filter->inline->prefilter->tank

Note, this is not conventional method and it is double edged.
1: There will be co2 stuck inside the prefilter for quite sometime when running high bps. It will take long time to clear when co2 in the tank is already saturated.

2: it affects flow-rate since your using a prefilter as something like a mixer.

I used this method before to keep co2 bubbles in the water. All so I can see pearling rather then a flood of bubbles.
In the past my old canister filter was 800 l/h (I think so, cf800) the flow was just nice slow current I wanted back then.

Hi felix, thanks, but for my impending setup, I was considering using a pre-filter (for other purposes) & have already ruled it out. So a pre-filter is beyond my consideration now.

[Shadow]

Yes need to clean, just like your filter hose, after a while brown thing sticking on the inner wall.

[ralliart12]

Anybody knows where I can find the 12/16 version (or even the twin-tube version) for Exhibit A? C328 only stocked the larger version (& don't have the twin-tube version too), while PolyArt doesn't stock any version.

[Shadow]

You can go to the distributor place, Keong Seong Fish Shop (KS) Blk 22 Havelock Road. I heard change name to east ocean or something but never mind there only 1 fish shop there

[ralliart12]

Btw, may I double confirm that the purpose of a check valve is to prevent any water from entering the CO2 tank in the event of an "accident"? In this case, there are multiple positions where I can place the check valve (please ignore the fact that my diffuser is before my canister):

Configuration #1:
CO2 tank > check valve > bubble counter > inline diffuser > canister filter inlet > canister filter outlet pipe

Configuration #2:
CO2 tank > bubble counter > check valve > inline diffuser > canister filter inlet > canister filter outlet pipe

Configuration #3:
CO2 tank > bubble counter > inline diffuser > check valve > canister filter inlet > canister filter outlet pipe

Configuration #4:
CO2 tank > bubble counter > inline diffuser > canister filter inlet > check valve > canister filter outlet pipe

Which is the more proper way?

You can go to the distributor place, Keong Seong Fish Shop (KS) Blk 22 Havelock Road. I heard change name to east ocean or something but never mind there only 1 fish shop there

Oh I didn't realise East Ocean is the main distributor for Up-Aqua products
Okay, I'll go check it out.

[Shadow]

CO2 tank -> check valve -> bubble counter -> check valve -> inline diffuser

[ralliart12]

CO2 tank -> check valve -> bubble counter -> check valve -> inline diffuser

Why the need for 2 check valves at these 2 positions?

[Shadow]

Because kiasu , normally check valve not 100% stop the back flow. Especially those cheap one, thus put more than one is better to make sure.

[RonWill]

CO2 tank -> check valve -> bubble counter -> check valve -> inline diffuser

Yep. If opting for diffuser, I would have done it the same but... I like reactors more

Ralliart, by "CO2 tank", can we safely presume the install of solenoid?

Configuration #4:
CO2 tank > bubble counter > inline diffuser > canister filter inlet > check valve > canister filter outlet pipe.... what were you thinking?? How do you intend to back-check CO2 once released into filter inlet??

Oh wait... I know.... it's a trick question, right?

[felix_fx2]

Because kiasu , normally check valve not 100% stop the back flow. Especially those cheap one, thus put more than one is better to make sure.

Mine alway have some backflow lol.
Good thing I having the same as your post

Maybe I put more.

Ron: he confused hehe. Or... Play too much game hehe.

[ralliart12]

Because kiasu , normally check valve not 100% stop the back flow. Especially those cheap one, thus put more than one is better to make sure.

Oh, I see.

...Ralliart, by "CO2 tank", can we safely presume the install of solenoid?...

Yes, will be using a solenoid (specific model I'm using is: "ANS CO2 Electro Magnetic Meter Type A [Solenoid]") in place of a manual regulator.

...Configuration #4:
CO2 tank > bubble counter > inline diffuser > canister filter inlet > check valve > canister filter outlet pipe.... what were you thinking?? How do you intend to back-check CO2 once released into filter inlet??

Oh wait... I know.... it's a trick question, right?

Nope, careless mistake on my part, i.e. just coming up with more permutations.

Btw, with regards to the portion highlighted in brown, do you actually mean to say "back-check the water (back-flow) when there's nothing between the diffuser & filter inlet"?

Mine alway have some backflow lol...

Talking about back-flow, are the "container-portion" of inline diffusers meant to fill up with water during operation?

...Good thing I having the same as your post ...

You mean same as Shadow's configuration?

...Maybe I put more...

Haha...I cannot afford already; I think my budget for check valves for this month is burst already.

...Ron: he confused hehe. Or... Play too much game hehe.

Ha! Haven't been playing games lately; been stressed over my main project tank.

[felix_fx2]

My inline after off some time it will fill up with water. During operation nope.

And yup same way I put as shadow.