what causes really sudden tannin surge

**elwaynetan** · 10th Sep 2012, 08:10

Hello...

From my understanding from my girl's tank... She was looking at the tank before she went to dry her hair. The water was clear and nice. Just after she dried her hair, when she went back to the tank again, the water became all brown. I do know from my experience that tannin surge doesn't occur in that split second... But it happened. Anybody have any experience on this?

Tank setup:

15cm*15cm*20cm
Driftwood with jave fern
Frogbits covering the surface
Moss balls
H.E.L.P advanced shrimp soil

This morning she found 6 fire reds died. ~

**elwaynetan** · 10th Sep 2012, 08:14

Anyway, I also understand that sudden/drastic change in pH caused by tannin surges kill shrimps... I'm looking for causes for real sudden tannin surges.

**|squee|** · 10th Sep 2012, 11:36

This is strange indeed. But if it helps, the only time I have seen my tank turn from clear to brown is when I turn on the filter after a heavy maintenance and all the gunk flows out from the outlet pipe.

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**elwaynetan** · 10th Sep 2012, 17:30

Originally Posted by |squee|

This is strange indeed. But if it helps, the only time I have seen my tank turn from clear to brown is when I turn on the filter after a heavy maintenance and all the gunk flows out from the outlet pipe.

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The only thing I did not do was to clean out the filter.. because the filter was put in like a week ago. ~ perhaps it's the filter?

**|squee|** · 11th Sep 2012, 01:13

Well it's very unlikely but maybe it was a case of coincidence, the filter just spewed out gunk suddenly? Because tannins from driftwood definitely don't leech into the water all of the sudden.

**elwaynetan** · 11th Sep 2012, 01:26

Originally Posted by |squee|

Well it's very unlikely but maybe it was a case of coincidence, the filter just spewed out gunk suddenly? Because tannins from driftwood definitely don't leech into the water all of the sudden.

True! But anyway, cleared the tank of the shrimps just now... total of 13 deaths and before I left her house another one died. I tested the water with the test kits just now. Below are the readings...

Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 1 ppm
Nitrate: 20 ppm
pH: 6
gH: 2-3

The nitrite in my opinion was quite high.. Nitrate wise, still under control because I believe the frogbits will clear it up by themselves. I deduced a hypothesis, I may have accidentally resetted the tank bio system when I did a 50% water change last saturday. I used filtered water treated with SeaChem Prime for the water change... Or so, I thought the SeaChem Prime had done the job of removing chlorine and chloromide. I poured the water in straight after adding the solution. Chances are there might still be chlorine/chloromide left in the water which resulted in killing the all the beneficial bacteria that day, causing the tank to restart again. If tomorrow the nitrite level decreases, that will prove the hypothesis. The pH might have been an issue too, though the Fire Reds and orange dwarfs inside are more tolerant to extreme pH levels within their range.

But nevertheless... It was still upsetting to pick up that number of dead shrimps. ~

**|squee|** · 11th Sep 2012, 01:38

I know the feeling. I was impatient with acclimatizing a batch of cherry shrimps and every single one of them died.

A 50% water change shouldn't have done anything to a well established tank, unless the tank is only weeks old? Got to take into account that it's a very small tank too.

What do you mean by filtered water? Reverse osmosis?

**elwaynetan** · 11th Sep 2012, 01:52

Originally Posted by |squee|

I know the feeling. I was impatient with acclimatizing a batch of cherry shrimps and every single one of them died.

A 50% water change shouldn't have done anything to a well established tank, unless the tank is only weeks old? Got to take into account that it's a very small tank too.

What do you mean by filtered water? Reverse osmosis?

Well, the tank is nearly 2 months old. However, the whole story kind of complicated. haha... initially, she was using HOB Filter until it was gone. That was about 3 weeks after the first initial set up. Then we change to another HOB Filter and remove the driftwood... The bio ring in the previous filter was kept for this HOB. The new HOB Filter has no power and enough flowrate... So after a week I change to a sponge filter for her. The sponge filter has been on its job for about 2 - 3 weeks already. I guessed the tank has not been fully cycled to its maximum..

Hmmm, you know those canister filter for home use? If your parents believe in those healthier water for healthier living concept. hahaha..

**|squee|** · 11th Sep 2012, 01:59

Originally Posted by elwaynetan

Hmmm, you know those canister filter for home use? If your parents believe in those healthier water for healthier living concept. hahaha..

Well that just might be the cause! Just as boiled water is different from tap water... well unless you have been using that kind of water all along.

Still doesn't explain the brown stuff.

**elwaynetan** · 11th Sep 2012, 02:07

Oh yes, all along. hahaha! I seriously believe those water are much cleaner for shrimps. For my own tank, been using the same from my house as well. So far, the cherry shrimps I have bought to test water have been quite well for the past week. Seen a few molts too...

Well, I guess for the brown stuffs, it might just have been what you've suggested. Sudden gunk from the filter~

**elwaynetan** · 12th Sep 2012, 22:04

Originally Posted by elwaynetan

True! But anyway, cleared the tank of the shrimps just now... total of 13 deaths and before I left her house another one died. I tested the water with the test kits just now. Below are the readings...

Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 1 ppm
Nitrate: 20 ppm
pH: 6
gH: 2-3

The nitrite in my opinion was quite high.. Nitrate wise, still under control because I believe the frogbits will clear it up by themselves. I deduced a hypothesis, I may have accidentally resetted the tank bio system when I did a 50% water change last saturday. I used filtered water treated with SeaChem Prime for the water change... Or so, I thought the SeaChem Prime had done the job of removing chlorine and chloromide. I poured the water in straight after adding the solution. Chances are there might still be chlorine/chloromide left in the water which resulted in killing the all the beneficial bacteria that day, causing the tank to restart again. If tomorrow the nitrite level decreases, that will prove the hypothesis. The pH might have been an issue too, though the Fire Reds and orange dwarfs inside are more tolerant to extreme pH levels within their range.

But nevertheless... It was still upsetting to pick up that number of dead shrimps. ~

Alright guys. I think my hypoithesis was correct. As of yesterday, the nitrate was still on the high side. Ammonia zero. Just now, the readings were taken again, and everything was back to normal, ammonia: 0 ppm nitrite: 0 ppm. We boosted the tank with frequent dosage of PSB and left the light on for them to function. Now the leftover 1 orange dwarf and newly bought fire reds are kicking alive inside, dashing across the tanks feeding around...

I have a conclusion which I think I will stick to. Do not add water which you just poured your water conditioner into the tank. Let the water conditioner do the job first for a while before you add it into the tank. The chlorine/chloromide may not be affecting your shrimps in a short period of time... But it will definitely kill the bacteria in your media almost immediately, massive scale.

Thanks for all the advices guys.