Fundulopanchax gardneri

[piperon]

@Shi Xuan,

I am very sorry if you misunderstood me for the earlier post about the families of the Fundulopanchax gardneri.
As I said - I am not here to prove who is right and who is wrong - this never crossed my mind.
I was sharing my little knowledge that I read somewhere. Sharing is a beautiful and wonderful gift.

Lastly, thank you so much for sharing with and helping this community.

[piperon]

Hi John,

First, how can we be very sure that these eggs that imported into Singapore and have them spawn are from pure strain?
Secondly, those we bought from the aquarium and fish farm are they pure strain too?
So, the issue in keeping a pure strain has a question - are they really pure strain and who can prove it?
Those fishes before they were caught live in drain and stream and I believe they already cross-breed there.

I agreed that we need to keep a pure strain but with these doubt in mind and can't prove it myself - then I don't really care about the breed - whether they are origin or strain.
Keeping a pure strain is like telling your children - you cannot do this and you cannot do that - this will greatly limit their abilities to explore their life and the world.
The same principle applied to the law - you cannot do this and you cannot do that - but some laws are necessary to keep society order but not too many.

PS : I am not here again to urge about whether we should keep a pure breed but nobody is very sure their killies are really pure breed - just like when I thought I was a pure Chinese until several years ago, my parent told me we were actually the descendants of the original Thai. Hahaha! And one more importance thing is RACE is one of the issue on Earth, it seems some race cannot get along with another race due to their skin, their culture, etc. cause they labelled themselves higher than other races. Do you see the same problems here in fishes too? If you were to take away the physical body and let alone comparing the soul - we are all the same regardless of what is outside (the body, the look, etc). So, in conclusion - regardless whatever fishes they are - they are all still FISH. I sound like a preacher today, hahaha! Forgive me!

[piperon]

Don't take it too seriously, life is like a dream. We are learning from each other.
Thanks to all who share their views!!!

PS : Bro John, I hope I was not invasive in my post up there, but just stating my view. Hope you understand it. Word can be mis-intrepretated in many ways, so please don't read too deeply into them. With my blessing and love to you.

If there wasn't a cross-breed, then today we wouldn't have the yellow or golden panchax in our tank already. Or perhaps, more variety and colours of some common fishes do not exist today too (I DO NOT SUPPORT DYE FISH - this is a very cruel way to create colours in fishes).

[Draka]

Haha piperon bro, no expert here, still learning as always. The reason I sounded a little forceful was cause some of us are sticklers for labels like that, to minimize issues for those hobbyists that wish to procure and keep pure strains, as bro johnchor mentioned, hence we may have seems a little hasty to comment on the separate species thing. For that I apologise. The reasons why some hobbyists, hardcore ones too, do it are for another discussion. Suffice to say, if its from unknown strain and collection spot with interbreeding, it's just a matter of manners to cast doubt on the strain, since for us it's very easy and convenient to simply cast aside all notion of it, and we should help ease those bros who would have it otherwise.

I'm sorry, but as I said, no expert here, so you'll need some more experienced bro to tell you which is which for your F. gardneri, but as I understand it some of the blue panchax recently mentioned in this forum is again, another species of killifish and not actually the same species as F. gardneri. That said, I would assume seaview labels them appropriately and what you mentioned are all F. gardneri.

Anyway bro, selective breeding gives rise to further colour strains, more often and more stably than cross breeding. If I recall golden panchax is a selective colour breed, not a result of cross breeding killie lines.

[piperon]

Thanks bro Draka,

No worries, I know what you mean, no worries at all.
This is how we learn all together, sharing a bit of our knowledge.
Probably, I has a hardcore towards the word "LABEL", hahaha!
And thanks so much for the information about the blue strain, sound ok to me - regardless of where they come from - they are still the beautiful Killie fish.
So to me, it is alright whether you are a king, or you are a begger, we are still human afterall. Hahaha! So, this label should be taken out.

As long as I put more love to my fishes, I don't really care what they are.
But at the same time, I respect those who insisted to keep a pure strain of them too - they are not wrong too, it is their choice - I respect this.
This is what FREE WILL is all about, nothing is wrong and nothing is right, everything is about learning experience.

[johnchor]

hello shi xuan bro and experts,

i am interested and looking at the following killies
F.gardneri
A.australe - orange
E.dageti or E.fasciolatus or E.sexfasciatus or E.infrafasciatus

are these easy begineer types

thanks

Hi Johnchor,

If you've noticed, I've edited quite a few of your posts because they contain some shorthanded text. Please refrain from doing so. This is part of the rules of this forum and I hope you understand. The ones sold at Green Chapter are not gardneri at all and the correct name should be Fundulopanchax nigerianus "Innidere". This strain was bought as eggs and bred over several generations, so they are identifiable fishes.

I'd suggest that if you're interested in killies, try to read up a bit more on them because the husbandry, water parameters, tank size etc. varies among species. For example, the ex-Megalebias are humongous killies which should be treated like cichlids and they like it cold, 20-23°C. Likewise, tiny killies like Leptolebias and Notholebias thrive and breed in acidic water and probably won't last long in an alkaline environment. There are some dedicated websites and books on killies which you can use as a reference when it comes to dealing with a specific species;

Frans Vermeulen's New World Killies => http://www.itrainsfishes.net/content/;

You can also try to get the pocket sized guide book on all the latest killie species compiled by Todor Metchkov here => http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/aucti...ishe1332276331

The local killie scene, as mentioned several times, is not very vibrant. Therefore, serious hobbyists should consider sourcing for eggs over the internet but as reiterated many times, there's always some risks involved. In fact, my latest batch of Rivulus cylindraceus "Cascada de Soaro" eggs I got through the mail didn't work out really well. Don't expect things to go your way because we're dealing with living creatures but if it does go as planned, the outcome can be very very rewarding.

Best regards,
Shi Xuan

[johnchor]

hello bros

some pictures of my Fundulopanchax gardneri

male n female
male_female.jpg

female?
female.jpg

[Shi Xuan]

Hi piperon,

I'm sure the ones you got are the right species but the problem is not having the correct females for them.

Hi Johnchor,

You can find Fp. nigerianus, (sorry no gardneri) and orange Ap. australe at GC. I'm sure the friendly shopmaster would be more than willing to give you additional advice as well.
E. dageti is a good species to start with but they can grow pretty big. Standard size tank would be a 2-3 ft tank, nothing less. The adults eat anything but would've preferred small crickets and feeder shrimps.

I've seen E.dageti on aquabid before, guess you can try your luck there.

[johnchor]

Hello master shi xuan!

thanks for great advice again.
i dont think i will be getting Fp. nigerianus they look too similar to Fundulopanchax gardneri which i got from LFS.
but i am VERY VERY VERY TEMPTED by orange Ap. australefrom GC!
but i need to get comfortable and confident with Fundulopanchax gardneri first before i dig into orange Ap. australe pair as they are not cheap.
my start to killifish is quite bad as 1 of my females Fundulopanchax gardneri died on 2nd day!
i just hope my Fundulopanchax gardneri breed and i start to raise the fry successfully.

after that i will move to orange Ap. australe. i read orange Ap. australe is not as easy as Fundulopanchax gardneri. they need cooler temp 24c?

as for E. dageti.... i will think about them.. much later..lolz

thanks sir

[Shi Xuan]

Hi,

Please don't call me a master. I'm not that old nor I deserve such a credit. Professionalism is never good for enthusiasm. In fact, I'm still looking at killies with the eyes of a kid in a candy store.

Aphyosemion australe doesn't need a cool water to breed. They are hardy little fishes and prolific but just make sure that the tanks are covered or you'll find crispies very soon. Your fishes look pale in the photo. Try to get a tank with a dark bottom like the Gex tank series, which comes in different sizes. They make the colors of the fishes look more vibrant.

[johnchor]

wow shi xuan bro.

your response so fast.
ok no master but bro ..hehehe...

ok back to killies, some aka members suggest to me to add black sand as Fundulopanchax gardneri prefers to spawn in sand/soil rather than plants. is this true?
i read killies.com page. wow a good website for all killies keeper.
the website suggest adding a small container with peat moss for killies to lay eggs.
it this method better for saving the eggs\fry rather than adding black sand directly into the tank?
peat moss also helps lower PH which killes prefers.
where to buy peat moss?

honestly i hate sand in my tanks... they are difficult to clean and maintain.

thanks again BRO!

ok these little guys came out and confront me today. hahhaa.
male
male.jpg
female
female.jpg

Hi John,

First, how can we be very sure that these eggs that imported into Singapore and have them spawn are from pure strain?
Secondly, those we bought from the aquarium and fish farm are they pure strain too?
So, the issue in keeping a pure strain has a question - are they really pure strain and who can prove it?
Those fishes before they were caught live in drain and stream and I believe they already cross-breed there.

I agreed that we need to keep a pure strain but with these doubt in mind and can't prove it myself - then I don't really care about the breed - whether they are origin or strain.
Keeping a pure strain is like telling your children - you cannot do this and you cannot do that - this will greatly limit their abilities to explore their life and the world.
The same principle applied to the law - you cannot do this and you cannot do that - but some laws are necessary to keep society order but not too many.

PS : I am not here again to urge about whether we should keep a pure breed but nobody is very sure their killies are really pure breed - just like when I thought I was a pure Chinese until several years ago, my parent told me we were actually the descendants of the original Thai. Hahaha! And one more importance thing is RACE is one of the issue on Earth, it seems some race cannot get along with another race due to their skin, their culture, etc. cause they labelled themselves higher than other races. Do you see the same problems here in fishes too? If you were to take away the physical body and let alone comparing the soul - we are all the same regardless of what is outside (the body, the look, etc). So, in conclusion - regardless whatever fishes they are - they are all still FISH. I sound like a preacher today, hahaha! Forgive me!

hellp bro mike,

your question of whether we get pure strain of killies is the same as in lake victoria cichlids.
pure strain are mostly maintained by a small group of hardcore hobbyist and even scientists!
these hardcore hobbyist mostly get their stocks directly from scientists visiting lake victoria in africa and this is mostly in Europe, germany,france,czech etc.
lake victoria cichlids from USA unless the parentage is known is also consider as hybrids...
i once import from czech lake victoria cichlids baby 1inch and they are not cheap....

there is a code of conduct in these hardcore hobbyists. they maintain only the pure breed as F0 F1 only. and these fetch a very high price. they are not willing to sell you even.
mostly what we get is only F1 2nd generation as purest...

promoting hybrids is really bad for science. we are not god and should not create anything unnatural. thats y i really hate ballons fish blood parrot, louhans, shortbody arrowannas. sorry no offence to keepers here. i condemmed the breeders only. but we can still be friends drinking kopi o.

anyway this is still a hobby for us to enjoy. just my simple though only.

[Shi Xuan]

Try not to use any kind of sand because they might be abrasive and can damage the eggs. I would suggest using peat moss which you can buy from any plant nursery. I used horti peat moss initially but it's not that good so I've switched to cocopeat.

I would suggest that you condition the pair separately and re-introduce them after 1-2 months.

One thing about the peat. Make sure you boil it thoroughly several times before putting it in your tank. I wouldn't use a filter for their breeding tank because it makes things messy, especially when they're spawning.

[piperon]

Bro John,

Each person has their own way of doing thing, it is not right or wrong - only a pure experience.
But the thin line is respect and this is lack in this world, if ever people respect another for their belief, their culture, then there should have no war today.
I respect your protection of the pure breed line but it is not wrong for others to explore into the area of cross-breeding too.
And we cannot set impose or dis-regard or condemn them as wrong-doing, I don't do this.
The only thing is - they will be responsible for their actions, simple as that.
Their actions can come in a form of rewards or disasters - to have new fish and new colours or totally messed up the original one.
And we are not the person to judge them cause this is their freedom - I hope you respect their free will choice too.

May the LOVE be with you always.

[Draka]

Haha I'm not a killienut, but I'm thinking "THAT debate again..."

[piperon]

Beloved Bro Draka,

I knew what you were referrring to - the KL Loh thread about cross-breeding which caused much debate among the members here.
I am not trying to start another session of this cross-breeding debate again.
I knew why I was bought here by the Divine force - to dissolve the ranking or class status but you will know it in the near future.

May the LOVE be with you always.

[Draka]

Now piperon, personally I have nothing against hybridization of species, it is after all a natural process that can occurs even without human intervention. But it is rather grating for me to hear you compare terms such as ranking or class status in societal systems to that of genus and species, for the classification system we use, though man made, reflects what is happening in nature. The definitions themselves preclude the determination of which belongs where. I'm not saying pure strains good, crossbreeds bad, nor am I saying it the other way round, but clearly one does not call two dissimilar things the same thing, no matter how alike they can appear to be.

Again, I am not a strong advocate for pure strains, neither am I one for hybridization. It's just that taxonomy is such an underrated field in spite of the amount of work that goes into it that I get mildly irritated when I see people disrespect it by lumping different species into one. These are just my two cents. anyway I shouldn't spark a further debate on this, seeing I don't even keep killifish and its really off topic shall stick to my C. hastatus

[piperon]

Yes, bro Draka,

That was your basic respect and understanding for all life regardless of their breed.
Although we might not agreed on certain things (this is common), my standpoint is still the same as yours - I respect all free will.

[Shi Xuan]

Hi,

Please stick to the thread. It's getting off-topic. Should you want to discuss anything irrelevant, please start a new one.

Best regards,
Shi Xuan

[johnchor]

thanks bro shi xuan,

i will try cocopeat in a small container in the breeding tank.
using a weak sponge filter not ok for breeding tank?
cheers!

Try not to use any kind of sand because they might be abrasive and can damage the eggs. I would suggest using peat moss which you can buy from any plant nursery. I used horti peat moss initially but it's not that good so I've switched to cocopeat.

I would suggest that you condition the pair separately and re-introduce them after 1-2 months.

One thing about the peat. Make sure you boil it thoroughly several times before putting it in your tank. I wouldn't use a filter for their breeding tank because it makes things messy, especially when they're spawning.

[Shi Xuan]

Not a good idea to have a filter when there's peat in the tank. They will stir up the peat when they spawn and most of it will get into the filter.

Fundulopanchax are switch-spawners, so they'll do just fine with either peat or mop. If you want to keep it neat, then stick to the mop. Just make sure it sinks, not float because Fp. gardneri prefers to deposit the eggs on the bottom. I'm sure you know how to make one and it ain't difficult, just a little bit time consuming. I would make a couple of thick ones because if it's thin, the adults could find and eat the eggs.

Another thing is, keep only a pair in the breeding tank. Too many and the others would be busy looking for eggs to eat when they are not spawning. Never 2 males too. Affects the egg production when the males are busy sparring and fighting among themselves most of the time and not spawning with the female.