skyjucie- that is a great site! thanks.. i might go for it but need to do some researched first..
Excellent!
For those interested
Temperature controller from Hong Kong
http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/Automatic...item6b1ebabc05
remember to specify you want plastic probe otherwise, they will send metal probe as a standard.
Peltier kit set for refrigeration 120 watts
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-6A-refri...item27cc2c075a
Water cooling block
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...block&_sacat=0
size them to requirement. If the designated power supply is too small, can use one from PC desktop, usually around 10 Ampere for 12 Volts.
skyjucie- that is a great site! thanks.. i might go for it but need to do some researched first..
Excellent!
Dear TS, Glad to hear you got the FIRE for this hobby...
Dear Skyjuice, interesting sites.... good dose of poison to all readers/members...lol
Check out my Blog on planted tank, good for newbies ( i am lazy to retype all the info i know, so please click and read below link... i hope you don't fall asleep while reading)
Link to my Blog
I am not PERFECT but I am LIMITED EDITION !!! BIG Tank comes with BIG Responsibility...as they makan a lot of $$....lol
One snag, these Peltier chillers are not as energy efficient. Can get only about 80% of input.. Suspect that Resun CL150 and other smaller chillers use the same technology. Chillers using freon are more efficient because freon do extra to get "free energy" during expansion. one Kw input can get around 1.5 to 2.5 Kw output Can use Peltier chillers as spare though instead of buying another chiller.
I think for zerofighterx101 case, he need to fill the box with water and add the ice pack. The water and ice combination will cool his coil better as the cold water will envelope his coil thus efficiently able to bring down the temp as well as cooling the water in the coil.
Skyjuice peltier chiller might work for small tank, with low night temperature currently occuring but when the hot season comes around, a refrigerant chiller might cut down the times a chiller is activated.
The way I see right now with the monsoon season at our doorstep, a simple large pail and a long length of filter hose might suffice. Loop the hose in the large pail and connect it to the filter or pump ( preferably a higher output canister filter with the strength to push water in the extra length hose ). Fill the pail with water until it cover the hose and let nature takes its course. The surrounding low temperature at night will cool the water in the pail which in turn cool the water in the hose and back to the display tank. For maximum effect, leave this setup outside your house as the water would be more colder outside than inside your home. But as a precaution, do monitor your tank water in case it dropped way below what your livestock is comfortable with.
If you've learnt, teach, if you have, give.
Don't walk behind me as I might not lead, don't walk in front of me as I might not follow. Walk beside me, as my friend.
Mohamad Rohaizal is my name. If it's too hard, use BFG. I don't mind.
This video will show how peltier chips work. It can go down to freezing point. If there are more chips running in parallel, it can even freeze a tank. This is actually how ICE Probe chiller works also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snrE1...eature=related
As for the natural cooling using surrounding low temperature, one could cool the most to the ambient wetbulb temperature which averages around 28C oin a very efficient method such as using very efficient cooling towers. If one were to dig a well deep into the ground, may be one can get a temperature around 27.5C.
Here is how ICEProbe works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmkDW8C6e3Q
Please do a search in this forum regarding peltier chiller. It has been discussed before.
If you've learnt, teach, if you have, give.
Don't walk behind me as I might not lead, don't walk in front of me as I might not follow. Walk beside me, as my friend.
Mohamad Rohaizal is my name. If it's too hard, use BFG. I don't mind.
peltier offers 5-8% efficiency. >90% of the input energy is lost as heat. very inefficient
vapour phase compressor has efficiency of about 50%.
iceprobe works fine only for a small tank of < 2 feet. it is practically useless for a bigger tank.
thomas liew
Resun CL150 is an electronic power chiller, made from peltier. It is rated as 200 Watts for 150 watts cooling.. so efficiency is around 75%
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Resun...447799364.html
I own a 1/4 hp Resun CL650 which measured to consume about 500 watts of electricity. It is a freon 134a chiller. The rated cooling power is around 650 watts.. so the efficiency is around 130%. Yes >100%, this is because freon do some extra work absorbing energy during expansion. Normal air conditioner has efficiency >200% because they have more efficient evaporator.
Last edited by skyjuice; 16th Nov 2012 at 10:20.
Skyjuice, your involvement in this topic, has it got to do anything with this peltier based chiller or you are a firm believer in this end of the cooling technology? You joined this board just to push this topic for everyone exposure, do you have a stake in this at all? Are you currently using a peltier based chiller or do you own one?
Let me give you an insight of what type of chiller I've own before.
1- Teco M3,
2- Sfiligoi 1/10hp, ( with external temperature sensor )
3- Daeil 1/10hp, ( with external temperature sensor )
4- Resun CL650, ( stock )
5- Hailea 1/6hp, ( stock )
6- Mitsubishi Starmex Compressor modified for aquarium used. ( with external temperature sensor )
Out of the 6 of the above chiller, the cl650 is gone due to a massive failure that cost me to lose all my coral collection. Long story short, massive rapid refrigerant loss. The Sfiligoi is on standby duty, the Daeil and Hailea is on loan and the Starmex is my current chiller for my 4 footer. The Teco M3, a peltier based chiller, is in my Ikea Samla container, a reminder to me that this type of chiller is not favourable in our country climate.
If you've learnt, teach, if you have, give.
Don't walk behind me as I might not lead, don't walk in front of me as I might not follow. Walk beside me, as my friend.
Mohamad Rohaizal is my name. If it's too hard, use BFG. I don't mind.
BFG, to answer, I have no stake in selling chillers. I am presently having a little project using aquarium chillers. Just like to share my little knowledge. I have Resun CL650 and Hailea 150a chillers.
Last edited by skyjuice; 17th Nov 2012 at 15:39.
When you say peltier has a 5-8% efficiency, you may be referring to its carnot cycle efficiency. It is not the usual Coefficient of Performance (COP) that most chillers are referring to..
Here is extract..
COP (which should have been used earlier) is often used in heat pump and refrigeration. It is the ratio between heat(cooling) energy output and work energy input and this can be more than 100%.Thermoelectric junctions are generally only around 5–10% as efficient as the ideal refrigerator (Carnot cycle), compared with 40–60% achieved by conventional compression cycle systems (reverse Rankine systems using compression/expansion). Due to the relatively low efficiency, thermoelectric cooling is generally only used in environments where the solid state nature (no moving parts, maintenance-free, compact size) outweighs pure efficiency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
Hope that will clear up the misunderstanding..
There is another COP that is often used in chillers, i.e kw per ton. Most commercial chillers nowaday has around 0.6 kw/ton.. meaning chiller will produce 12,000 BTU/hr of cooling with just 0.6 kw of power input. With 3412 BTU/hr per 1KW conversion, the COP would be 12000/3412/0.6= 5.85 which is about 2.5 times more efficient than the aquarium chiller.... because they have super large condensers..
You have to understand where we come from. In a real world setting, the use of peltier chiller are not practical especially in our climate. You may try to impress me with your mathematical data and such but a refrigerant based chiller is still more practical than peltier. Why is it that there are no peltier based chiller for large tank? For would be peltier based chiller user, often than not, it is recommended to purchase multiple unit for large tank but the cost of purchasing multiple unit could cover the cost of buying a higher model refrigerant chiller needed to cool the tank.
I compare the peltier based chiller as the bicycle and the refrigerant based chiller as the car. Yes both can go from point a to point b but when the health of your pets is detrimental, the refrigerant based chiller would chill your water faster compared to the peltier based chiller, ensuring minimum discomfort for your pets. A peltier based chiller would take too long to bring down the temperature as it is influenced by the surrounding temperature which could stress the animal even more. Imagine a scenario whereby your power supply trip while you're at work and you restart everything upon reaching home, that refrigerant chiller would take a short time cooling the water, with lights and everything switch on but the peltier based chiller would have an uphill task just bringing down 1degree c in the 1st hour or so. This is real world data, most important fact to know for aquarist.
Sorry, you may be an engineer sir, but no aquarist.
If you've learnt, teach, if you have, give.
Don't walk behind me as I might not lead, don't walk in front of me as I might not follow. Walk beside me, as my friend.
Mohamad Rohaizal is my name. If it's too hard, use BFG. I don't mind.
Resun CL150 is a peltier chiller. It has a cooling output of only 150 watts compare to Resun CL650 (a freon chiller) which has an cooling output of 650 watts. If one were to install 5 nos of CL150 for a fish tank, would it not run as efficient as CL650 in term of cooling down the fish tank? It all boils down to design and the economic.
Personally, I would not recommend to use 5 CL150 for 1 CL650 because it is just costlier to install and also to run but it has a better redundancy in case one of them should fail to work. Having said that I had agreed earlier that Peltier chillers are not as efficient as freon chillers because freon does extra work for nothing during its expansion phase; therefore, CL650 has a COP 70% better than CL150 (1.30 vs 0.75). In terms of restarting after power failure, peltier chiller will start faster because unlike freon chiller, peltier chiller does not have to wait for 60 seconds recycling time to restart; of course, this is not a significant point to choose peltier chiller. So far, Peltier chiller is good to be used as back up unit because of its relatively lower capital cost and higher running cost for the same unit size (so far, commercial units are less than 300 watts).
I would not dwell again on this topic and hope we can move on.
Last edited by skyjuice; 18th Nov 2012 at 07:42.
Just to add, resun CL150, Hailea 100a and JBJ Arctical nano, they are all 1/20 hp aquarium chiller. resun is peltier chiller whereas the other 2 are freon chillers. JBJ 1/20 hp has discontinued. Make a comparison among them in terms of capital and running cost.
Thanks, let's wait for zerofighter to update the thread.
This is his wonderful DIY thread.
Learning the hardway, not the highway.
Photo Blog - impervious-endeavors.blogspot.com
Semi-Active currently
"if he cant be bothered to take the time to write his question properly, why should I take the time to answer him."
Bookmarks