Bringing down kH

[escahmo]

1) How do i bring down kH?
2) Before photo period my pH is 8, and after photo period my pH is 6.9. and my kH throughout is around 7-8. Is the great change in pH normal???

[geoffrey]

escahmo,

You can reduce your kH through water change. Are you using coral or baking soda? If you are using the latter, dose less will also help. I shall not talk about the other expensive method because our tap water is typically soft. More often than not, we introduce hardness into our water as CO2 buffers, hence reversible.

Are you using a solenoid to turn on your CO2 at the beginning of your photoperiod? If you are then it's normal. Injecting CO2 into your tank brings down the pH. In fact, try to get a bigger difference of about 1.5~1.6. That will mean you have enough CO2 in the tank. Try to turn on your solenoid earlier than your lights because it needs time for your delivery system to saturate your tank with enough CO2.

Plants work better with CO2 constantly available from the start of it's photoperiod.

[justjoin]

hi geoffrey

So does it means that his tank get a PH swing of about 1.1(from 8 to 6.9) is not fatal to fishes/plants etc....we can even allow a higher swing of PH1.5 - 1.6 & this showed that the co2 concentration is sufficient in his tank?

Usually, what what time is good to ON the co2 first before the lights are ON?let say my lights ON at 10am.

thks

[geoffrey]

As to when you should actually turn on your solenoid really depends alot on your delivery system. You need to take CO2 measurements to ascertain that. Typically an hour before lights on is good.

[escahmo]

I have some rock pick up from the beach, but i have it clean. Will these rock cause the kH to be high????

[geoffrey]

Some stuffs you pick up from the beach will bring up KH. Especially when they are contaminated with coral chips, shells etc.

Water Hardness

CO2/kH/pH relationship

[escahmo]

Think the rock is a problem. But isn't high kH is better??? i mean alot of ppl trying to prevent low kH by adding Carbonate tablet.

[barmby]

escahmo,

you may go to Nature Aquarium (check LFS list). they sell KH up powder. this will meet your needs.

[balacam]

[quote:e77bfd98db="escahmo"]Think the rock is a problem. But isn't high kH is better??? i mean alot of ppl trying to prevent low kH by adding Carbonate tablet.[/quote:e77bfd98db]

high kH is a problem to me. in order to achieve a low pH (good for some fishes), i have to use co2 to bring pH down. i also need a lower kH inorder to bring down the pH further because they are all related. i use RO water to bring down kH (50cents per 1.5 litres)

co2 up -> pH down
kH down -> pH down but co2 unchange
RO water = zero kH

[escahmo]

Wat is RO and where to buy????

[budak]

Reverse Osmosis water..... which is pure H2O without any mineral content..... I think optician supply shops stock it (used for cleaning contact lens).... but you can also use distilled water, like those at Watson's..

[balacam]

I ever bought a dozen of 1.5l bottles of distilled water just to change only 20% of the tank water. it cost me $5. my wife said i was crazy because she thought i will keep on buying distilled water for the fish tank.

[quote:6126fa9500="escahmo"]Wat is RO and where to buy????[/quote:6126fa9500]

[vinz]

[quote:bb2b7579b3="escahmo"]Think the rock is a problem. But isn't high kH is better??? i mean alot of ppl trying to prevent low kH by adding Carbonate tablet.[/quote:bb2b7579b3]

Having some KH in the tank is for buffering (or reducing the range of) pH swing as the CO2 levels in our tanks change. A KH of 1 is enough to do that. However, the higher the KH, the higher the base pH. So some people have higher KH to maintain the pH at a higher level.

[Blue Whale]

^_^ becoz that some people keep arowanna izzit? Ha Ha...

Generally, it was said that the tap water verfies recently, at least around Woodlands area (Kranji water works). But I dun have much of problem since 2 years back when I bought Aqumedi KH Up powder for S$7.50. Seems like other hobbists around here tend to ignore KH or they simply dunno about this, but the FS owner step on this to educate the hobbists.

As I am keeping quite a stock on tetras, my dKH is kept between 5 - 8. Generally no problem on my side. Beside that, I too treat the water with Aqua Plus for 20-30% water change average between 1 or 2 weeks; or 3 times in a month.

[theodore]

[quote:0be0873c6b="KnightStriker"]
...
Seems like other hobbists around here tend to ignore KH or they simply dunno about this, but the FS owner step on this to educate the hobbists.

As I am keeping quite a stock on tetras, my dKH is kept between 5 - 8. Generally no problem on my side.
...
[/quote:0be0873c6b]

Fish-only tanks and low light tanks w/o CO2 injection have no preference for KH IMO since all it does is to buffer pH swing that may stress out fishes.

I'm interested to know what made you think 5-8dKH is beneficial for tetras? Esp. when all the resources I've seen so far only mentions the pH and GH (at times presented in the form of Ca2+ and Mg2+ analysis) of their natural environment.

[Blue Whale]

[quote:2d607f5601="theodore"]
Fish-only tanks and low light tanks w/o CO2 injection have no preference for KH IMO since all it does is to buffer pH swing that may stress out fishes.

I'm interested to know what made you think 5-8dKH is beneficial for tetras? Esp. when all the resources I've seen so far only mentions the pH and GH (at times presented in the form of Ca2+ and Mg2+ analysis) of their natural environment.[/quote:2d607f5601]

Firstly, allow me to orientate my tank since I do not have a photo of it. They'r in a 3ft planted tank fitted with 2 CO2 system and 2 filters. 70% vegetation whilst 30% is feeding area.

2ndly my tetra(s) are not wild captive but fish farm breed. For Emperor, Cardinal, LampEye, Black and Golden tetras, they do not need much amazon like environment. cardinal and lampeye are more than 20 each. Their counterparts include cories, angel fish, eel, puffer, etc. All housed in 1 3 ft with harmony. hee hee, u can imagine how much I enjoy looking at so much activities whilst not cramping the tank.

Each has their own territory though, whilst mud skippers patrol the sand bed. Shallow 10cm High 15 cm.
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Most fish owners put salt which suffice as buffers thus do not need much to exercise on KH powders. Nope I dun use sodium bicarbonate bought from normal shops since I find them too weak as kh buffers and I dun use salt. I use KH UP powder. Pretty soon, I might use salt.
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And yes, I do add other nutrients and treat the water in my own way. Sorry I am a not that "technical" fish owner. I too no longer measure my GH so I can't tell u now whats the dGH. The tank was setup in September 2003 and by far no fish/prawns die of stress.

[theodore]

[quote:74bab2bfc1="KnightStriker"]
Firstly, allow me to orientate my tank since I do not have a photo of it. They'r in a 3ft planted tank fitted with 2 CO2 system and 2 filters. 70% vegetation whilst 30% is feeding area.

2ndly my tetra(s) are not wild captive but fish farm breed. For Emperor, Cardinal, LampEye, Black and Golden tetras, they do not need much amazon like environment. cardinal and lampeye are more than 20 each. Their counterparts include cories, angel fish, eel, puffer, etc. All housed in 1 3 ft with harmony. hee hee, u can imagine how much I enjoy looking at so much activities whilst not cramping the tank.
[/quote:74bab2bfc1]

I see ... So you are increasing KH to act as a pH buffer much like most/all other hobbyists with high light, CO2-injected planted tanks. Saw quite a bit of misinformation on KH in forums recently (e.g. CO2 solubility is better at 3-5dKH). That's why I wanted to clarify your point.

Most fish owners put salt which suffice as buffers thus do not need much to exercise on KH powders. Nope I dun use sodium bicarbonate bought from normal shops since I find them too weak as kh buffers and I dun use salt. I use KH UP powder. Pretty soon, I might use salt.

Unless you are a fish breeder/reseller trying to suppress all kinds of parasitic diseases (ich, velvet) until you sell the fishes to some unsuspecting newbie, you don't need salt in the water all the time.

How much KH Up powder do you add (e.g. X teaspoon per L or Gallon)? I'm trying to compare the strength of this KH powder you are using vs. NAHCO3.

And yes, I do add other nutrients and treat the water in my own way. Sorry I am a not that "technical" fish owner. I too no longer measure my GH so I can't tell u now whats the dGH. The tank was setup in September 2003 and by far no fish/prawns die of stress.

Most of us ditch water tests (esp. GH, NO3 and PO4) after a while. Too much work

[Blue Whale]

[quote:26c410c55a="theodore"]
I see ... So you are increasing KH to act as a pH buffer much like most/all other hobbyists with high light, CO2-injected planted tanks. Saw quite a bit of misinformation on KH in forums recently (e.g. CO2 solubility is better at 3-5dKH). That's why I wanted to clarify your point.
[/quote:26c410c55a]

Its okay, I haven't been around for some time. But I have a Co2 reactor with a Co2 tank...ya, equipped with bubble counters, electonic regulator etc. Call me KiaSi then Kiasu. Hee Hee.

[quote:26c410c55a="theodore"]
Unless you are a fish breeder/reseller trying to suppress all kinds of parasitic diseases (ich, velvet) until you sell the fishes to some unsuspecting newbie, you don't need salt in the water all the time.

How much KH Up powder do you add (e.g. X teaspoon per L or Gallon)? I'm trying to compare the strength of this KH powder you are using vs. NAHCO3.[/quote:26c410c55a]

eeee, its Aquamedic KH UP powder. For 3 small pails of water change, 1 pail is added with 1/3 of Aquamedic spoon size. 1 small pail of water takes abt 4 - 5 cups of water (those used for brushing).

1 pail is added with Ocean Blue (white spot), precaution treatment, 1 pail is added with 5ml Seachem Potassium, 5ml Seachem Flourish, 2-5ml ALife Iron Supplement, 5-10ml of ALife Trace Element. All pails treated with Nutrafin Aqua Plus.

You can imagine is a lot of work for each water change.

[quote:26c410c55a="theodore"]
Most of us ditch water tests (esp. GH, NO3 and PO4) after a while. Too much work [/quote:26c410c55a]

Agreed. I.T. has a saying "if it ain't spoilt, dun fix it". Hee Hee.

[vinz]

[quote:613353d9e3="KnightStriker"]^_^ becoz that some people keep arowanna izzit? Ha Ha...[/quote:613353d9e3]
Errrrr... what's that got to do with it? We're talking about using KH to buffer pH swing caused by CO2 injection, are we not?

[quote:613353d9e3="KnightStriker"]Generally, it was said that the tap water verfies recently, at least around Woodlands area (Kranji water works). But I dun have much of problem since 2 years back when I bought Aqumedi KH Up powder for S$7.50. Seems like other hobbists around here tend to ignore KH or they simply dunno about this, but the FS owner step on this to educate the hobbists.

As I am keeping quite a stock on tetras, my dKH is kept between 5 - 8. Generally no problem on my side. Beside that, I too treat the water with Aqua Plus for 20-30% water change average between 1 or 2 weeks; or 3 times in a month.[/quote:613353d9e3]

To each his own... as long as it works. I just use baking soda. Have you checked up the contents of AquaMedi's KH up? I understand that most of commercial KH up products are just baking soda with some amendments added.

[vinz]

[quote:54dd51abea="KnightStriker"]...

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Most fish owners put salt which suffice as buffers thus do not need much to exercise on KH powders. Nope I dun use sodium bicarbonate bought from normal shops since I find them too weak as kh buffers and I dun use salt. I use KH UP powder. Pretty soon, I might use salt.
----------------

...[/quote:54dd51abea]

What do you mean by weak?

Please don't take this as "whacking". (Seems like some people are a little hyper-sensitive nowadays... )