what's wrong with my APP (Elantine Triandra)?

[liuhao]

seems my APP is having some deficiency problem. there are brown/black spots on the leaves. here are some pictures:

http://www.arofanatics.com/members/liuhao/appproblem/

tank: 2ft x 1ft x 1ft
capacity: 60 liter
filter: eheim 2028, 50% of full flowrate
gravel: seachem onyx sand
lighting: 2x20W FL tubes
photosynthesis period: 10 hours
co2: 25-30ppm. 3.5L tank, solenoid, external co2 reactor
PH: around 6.70
KH: around 4
NO3: 6ppm, using seachem nitrogen
PO4: 0.5ppm, using seachem phosphate
K+: 25ppm, using seachem potasium
Fe+: 0.5ppm, using Lushgro micro, also put some Dennerle E15 tablets and Tetra FloraPride
other fertilizers: a little seachem flourish (very little)
fish load: 7 cardinal, 9 rummynose, 2 asia rummynose, 2 sae, 1 oto, 1 chinese algae eater, 2 yamoto shrimp

any advise please? thank you very much.

[Plantbrain]

Poor CO2 looks like the issue.
Add more NO3, like 2 the dosage.
Same for PO4
Add a bit more CO2, 6.6pH.
Make sure the pH is low for the entire photperoid, not just in the start.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[bclee]

My APP shows these signs when they are short of NO3. You can try to add more NO3. IMO, it would be more economical to use KNO3 from Dr Mallick's. It should be available from Eco-culture @ eminent plaza. Call them to check the availability before going there. Phone number should be there in the LFS list on this site.

BC

[liuhao]

thank youi for the advises.

have increased my NO3 to 7.5ppm. PO4 now is 0.4pm after re-test. are they enough? also CO2 inscreased as well at 30-35ppm. will see and report the result.

[ranmasatome]

i think Tom mentioned to double your po4 and no3....its doesn't seem like you've doubled it..because if you did...po4 would be 1ppm and no3 would br 12ppm.

[liuhao]

[quote:6395427a84="ranmasatome"]i think Tom mentioned to double your po4 and no3....its doesn't seem like you've doubled it..because if you did...po4 would be 1ppm and no3 would br 12ppm.[/quote:6395427a84]

oic. got it. thanks for enlighting me.

hmm...12ppm NO3 and 1 ppm PO4. quite a lot huh. never tried that kinda amount. but this time, i will definitely try. hahaha...

will report the progress...

[|squee|]

Actually the N03 can go up to 20ppm if I'm not wrong. So its not high at all.

[liuhao]

[quote:8683fcf13b="|squee|"]Actually the N03 can go up to 20ppm if I'm not wrong. So its not high at all.

[/quote:8683fcf13b]

now my NO3 is almost 20ppm. accidently dose more than i should...

now trying to increase PO4 to 0.75ppm.

let's see. good or bad, the result would be interesting. and i believe would be helpful for other ppl as well. hahaha...

[ranmasatome]

dont be scared...just increase it to 1ppm or slighty over also can...

[bclee]

One more thing... you might want to trim off those affected leaves. My experience is that those affected leaves will continue to die off and sometime cause the APP to rot back. Many times I need to re-do the whole forground when this happens.

BC

[Ruff]

I have a newly set up tank (about 1 mth) and am using the full range of Dennerle water care products (A1, TR7, E15, V30, etc).

On top of the Dennerle products, I having been adding baking soda to increase KH to 4, Seachen Equilibrium to increase GH to 4 and KNO3 to 10 ppm.

Noted the PO4 was only 0.1 to 0.2 ppm but the plant was growing quite well.

Then I started to push the PO4 up to 1 ppm by adding potassium phosphate. Spot and hair algae started to appear.

I suspect that with 10 ppm of NO3 and 1 ppm of PO4, my tank is probably short of potassium as the algae situation improved after I added potassium sulphate into the tank. (For every small pinch of potassium phosphate, I have to add about 2 or three times the amount of potassium sulphate)

I do not know whether my deduction is correct or not.

I am also pondering on whether to stop the addition of potassium phosphate and potassium sulphate but maintain the NO3 at 10 ppm.

It will be great if anyone of you can enlighten me on this.

(My tank is 4X1.5X1.5, using PL light 4X55W)

[liuhao]

my green algaes (those on the tank glass) increased after i increased NO3 from 5ppm to 10ppm. PO4 remains at 0.4ppm.

now i increase NO3 from 10ppm to 20ppm, and PO4 from 0.4ppm to 0.75ppm. now monitoring the green algaes...will report.

[bclee]

NO3 and PO4 should not directly induce the algae. Do make sure that you have got good level of CO2 throughout the photoperiod. Like Plantbrian suggested, push your CO2 a little higher.

BC

[Ruff]

I am maintaining PH at 6.65 to 6.70 by using a ph controller. KH is kept at 4.2 and I check the KH every day. Hence, CO2 should be about 30 ppm.

For two times when I push the PO4 from 0.1 ppm to 1 ppm, spot and hair algae start to appear. The situation was under control only when I add potassium (potassium sulphate) in.

I suspect there is insufficient potassium in my tank for keeping up with 10 ppm of NO3 and 1 ppm of PO4. However, if I leave the NO3 at 10 ppm but let PO4 stay at 0.1 ppm, the plants' growth is still alright.

It really puzzled me.

[liuhao]

here is an update about my APP:

as i previously mentioned, the leaves of APP first turned yellow sometime ago. i raised iron (chelated). it turns green a little bit but still there were yellow spots on the leaves. then i increased NO4 to 10ppm-20ppm. the new leaves appeared bigger but yellow spots remained. also lots of new leaves appeared as wired shape. something like '8'.

i read an article somewhere from web that adding PO4 may help. so i increased PO4 to 0.75ppm-1ppm. that was 3 days ago. till today, i dont see yellow spot on new growth also the shape of new leaves look very nice. will keep monitoring. so far seems PO4 is important...

by the way i also increased light. currently using 2x20W FL plus 2x36W PL. total 112W for my two feet. the plant bubbling like hell. even the green algaes on the tank glass wall also bubbling...haha