moss advice

[aqua]

hi my tank parameters are as follows:
(1) 4 feet by 2 feet by 2 feet
(2) light 36X8 10 hours daily
(3) ph 6.6 kh 3 throughout the light period
(4) water temp 26-27 degrees
(5) water change 25-30% weekly
(6) kno3 1.5 tspn, k2so4 2 tspn, prolife liquid fert 20ml, kh2so4 1ppm
(7) fish load 40 espei, 12 red nose, 2 angels, 10 plus yamatos
( feeding once every two days with dry food

my moss is not growing lushy and some portions are being attacked by thread/hair algae. occasionally bba attack also.

so any advice to tweak the water parameters to improve the moss growth and eliminate thread algae and bba??

thanks and regards

[richietay]

u mean moss not healthy or not flourish. What kind of moss u having?!?!as can see ur temp are just right for them. do u use co2 for ur tank?!?!

[vinz]

Note, most cheap aquarium thermometers are not very accurate. They can be off by as much as 1 degree celcius.

If you have a clinical thermometer (lots given free during SARS period), you can use that to determine how far off your aquarium thermometer is. Use clean tap water in a cup and put in the aquarium and clinical thermometer.

If the temperature is below the range of the clinical one, add hot water bit by bit till it gets into range.

[vinz]

Yes, do you use CO2? And check your water circulation.

[aqua]

hi

yes i use c02 with ph 6.6 kh 3. i also use ac fan to cool the water. i have an additional internal aquaball filter to help circulate the water on top of the canister filter.

but my java, christmas, and singapore are not flourishing and seems unhealthy with blacken threads.

i have been using seachem prime as water conditioner after wc and i just found out that it is suppose to detox nitrites and nitrates. so does that mean mt moss are deprived of the needed ferts?

cheers

[vinz]

Yes, stop using Seachem Prime. Do you have other plants? How are they doing?

[PeterGwee]

Seachem Prime is not the issue here. The likely problem is poor CO2. BBA and hair algae are great bio indicators that your CO2 might not be what is being measured. Go back and recheck your CO2 level...is it consistent? Increase your KH sampling volume to increase the accuracy by 2x or so...what is your CO2 level again? Work at it...if something is still not right even after all this work, eyeball your critters and add more CO2 slowly day by day. (You need to make sure your N,P,K, GH and traces are good...CO2 delivery system is consistent...does not do CO2 24/7 or else you can and will kill your critters. Careful! Oh, a small piece of riccia rock is a great indicator to use for CO2. If it pearls half way through the photoperiod or slightly earlier, your CO2 is good.).

Regards
Peter Gwee

[aqua]

hi

the rest of the plants seem ok but with some bba infection.

cheers

[vinz]

[quote:cd8122e45c="PeterGwee"]Seachem Prime is not the issue here. The likely problem is poor CO2. BBA and hair algae are great bio indicators that your CO2 might not be what is being measured. Go back and recheck your CO2 level...is it consistent? Increase your KH sampling volume to increase the accuracy by 2x or so...what is your CO2 level again? Work at it...if something is still not right even after all this work, eyeball your critters and add more CO2 slowly day by day. (You need to make sure your N,P,K, GH and traces are good...CO2 delivery system is consistent...does not do CO2 24/7 or else you can and will kill your critters. Careful! Oh, a small piece of riccia rock is a great indicator to use for CO2. If it pearls half way through the photoperiod or slightly earlier, your CO2 is good.).

Regards
Peter Gwee [/quote:cd8122e45c]

Peter,

How can N be good when Prime removes ammonia and detoxs nitrates? Although, we do need to clarify what Seachem means by "detox" and converting "ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form". Are the new "forms" usable by plants? However, I still think it's a good idea to stop using Prime and eliminate it completely as a factor.

Coming from a symptom standpoint, it does point at poor CO2 as the culprit.

From seachem website:

Prime™ is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime™ removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime™ converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime™ may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime™ detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels.Prime™ also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime™ is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime™ will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water.

[PeterGwee]

Vinz, Seachem Prime only binds the N temporarily....but plants are capable of using it still. I think someone posted a reply from Greg Morin. There is not a kind of stuff that can really get the N out of the tank other than a good water change or great plant growth.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[aqua]

hi

i used to have c02 injection only at the start of the lighting period and the ph only goes down to 6.6 after 5 hours and stays there til the end of the lighting period. recently i have tried to injection c02 5 hours before lighting starts so that c02 gets constant throughout the 10 hours period. so does this help?? btw my crypts have suffered and a lot are melting due to the change in c02 injection period

according to chuck bba and thread algae thrives due to hight phosphates and iron respectively. so is it recommended for me to reduce the kh2so4 to 0.5ppm and profito fert to 15 ml??

i cant increase the c02 to lower ph liao due to my internal reactor not reacting fast enough.

cheers

[vinz]

[quote:1c1c5248e0="PeterGwee"]Vinz, Seachem Prime only binds the N temporarily....but plants are capable of using it still. I think someone posted a reply from Greg Morin. There is not a kind of stuff that can really get the N out of the tank other than a good water change or great plant growth.

Regards
Peter Gwee [/quote:1c1c5248e0]

I read the Prime FAQ. Says that Ammonia is bound, but usable by the filter bacteria. As nor NO2 and NO3, Seachem themselves are not sure of the actual mechanisms. They speculate some form of binding similar to what Prime does to ammonia and suspect conversion to N2 as well. Kind of a mix bag of tricks. Prime was not designed to handle NO2 and NO3... it was an accidentally discovered function that they verified through testing.

Anyhow, I'll go with your direction of CO2 deficiency. Symptoms point to that. That's why I asked the thread starter to check his circulation.

[barmby]

[quote:ea4f20a965="aqua"]hi

according to chuck bba and thread algae thrives due to hight phosphates and iron respectively. so is it recommended for me to reduce the kh2so4 to 0.5ppm and profito fert to 15 ml??

i cant increase the c02 to lower ph liao due to my internal reactor not reacting fast enough.

cheers[/quote:ea4f20a965]

I am also interested to know high PO4 and Iron will result in thread algae?

Btw, split your CO2 outlet to two. I recommend this for all 4 ft tank and above. It really helps. You can bring your CO2 tank W valve to Nature Aquarium for modifications. Mr.Chan will be willing to help.

[PeterGwee]

[quote:ed7ebcb4bf="aqua"]hi

i used to have c02 injection only at the start of the lighting period and the ph only goes down to 6.6 after 5 hours and stays there til the end of the lighting period. recently i have tried to injection c02 5 hours before lighting starts so that c02 gets constant throughout the 10 hours period. so does this help?? btw my crypts have suffered and a lot are melting due to the change in c02 injection period

according to chuck bba and thread algae thrives due to hight phosphates and iron respectively. so is it recommended for me to reduce the kh2so4 to 0.5ppm and profito fert to 15 ml??

i cant increase the c02 to lower ph liao due to my internal reactor not reacting fast enough.

cheers[/quote:ed7ebcb4bf]

You can consider trying out the DIY internal CO2 reactor Tom posted on his Barr Report website or work on a DIY external reactor (a big one is good as it allows for more flow and hence better mixing/ faster response time.).

Regards
Peter Gwee

[PeterGwee]

[quote:9880db57e4="barmby"][quote:9880db57e4="aqua"]hi

according to chuck bba and thread algae thrives due to hight phosphates and iron respectively. so is it recommended for me to reduce the kh2so4 to 0.5ppm and profito fert to 15 ml??

i cant increase the c02 to lower ph liao due to my internal reactor not reacting fast enough.

cheers[/quote:9880db57e4]

I am also interested to know high PO4 and Iron will result in thread algae?

Btw, split your CO2 outlet to two. I recommend this for all 4 ft tank and above. It really helps. You can bring your CO2 tank W valve to Nature Aquarium for modifications. Mr.Chan will be willing to help.[/quote:9880db57e4]

The inorganic nutrients that we add do not cause algae....The issue often lies with adding too little/ poor CO2 or both. The estimative index method takes the nutrients variable out of the equation by dosing at max uptake rate. Light is seldom an issue as most folks have plenty over their tank. What is left after removing the light and nutrients? CO2! Some kits just don't tell you the truth even after much work hence you would need to ignore the kit and eyeball your critters while you increase your CO2 dosing rate. As long as your CO2 delivery system is consistent (bubble rate does not move around), did not do CO2 24/7, you can hit the good CO2 levels. A small piece of riccia stone is great indicator for this...

Regards
Peter Gwee

[aqua]

hi petergwee

why is it not a good idea to do c02 24/7? i turn on my c02 5 hours before light on, is this ok??

cheers

[balacam]

I am injecting co2 at 24/7. As long as the fishes are ok and the co2 is consistent (e.g. using reliable needle valve regulator), I presume it is ok to inject co2 at 24/7.

[PeterGwee]

[quote:a5d041f0bf="aqua"]hi petergwee

why is it not a good idea to do c02 24/7? i turn on my c02 5 hours before light on, is this ok??

cheers[/quote:a5d041f0bf]

If something were to influence your pH or KH measurements, you are likely to have lower CO2 level. It is less risky to do excess CO2 only during the photoperiod and have it gas off during the night without buildup to toxic levels while keeping the tank healthy. If you do that with CO2 at 24/7...the potential risk of killing or stressing your critters is very great.

I'm not sure about you folks but when I did CO2 at 24/7, I tend to have very low CO2 levels (15-10ppm or less) towards the late half of the photoperiod due to strong uptake during the peak period. I did a lot of testing....I'm not sure about you folks though. I can help you by giving you advice but its your call to follow or not.

Regards
Peter Gwee